Page 3 | Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

VincitVeritas1 · 2023-12-06T17:45:17+00:00

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 19:36

@VincitVeritas1 you didn’t respond to my post on the earlier thread - now copied below - where you accused me on creating an alternative reality!

I’m not creating an alternative reality. Hell (or heaven) doesn’t exist and you can’t threaten someone with hell for not believing - hardly the characteristics of the supposedly good religious people! I’d class you as morally inferior!

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 19:40

@Parker231,

So if I don’t put my trust in an imaginary god I don’t believe in, I’ll go where?

Do you want, would you be able to, be in complete harmonious unity with a God you don't believe in or trust? In Heaven there is complete harmonious unity with God. If you could not be harmonious unity perhaps it wouldn't be very Heaven like since you would be in disharmony, disunity? It would be like living with somebody you hated, in a home you hated.

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 19:41

And no threats @Parker231 from me. But you tell me, do you want to go to Christian Heaven after you die?

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 19:46

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 19:41

And no threats @Parker231 from me. But you tell me, do you want to go to Christian Heaven after you die?

what do you think happens - heaven if you believe and hell if you don’t?

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 19:54

I think if you don't believe in God there might be a lot in Heaven that might be uncomfortable for you. Heaven without unity with God is not heaven. Can you have unity with a being you don't believe in, @Parker231? Maybe there would be enough in you that is in unity with God but if that is so would you recognise it when you encountered Christ?

I don't have all the answers. What do you think?

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 19:57

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 19:54

I think if you don't believe in God there might be a lot in Heaven that might be uncomfortable for you. Heaven without unity with God is not heaven. Can you have unity with a being you don't believe in, @Parker231? Maybe there would be enough in you that is in unity with God but if that is so would you recognise it when you encountered Christ?

I don't have all the answers. What do you think?

I’m a 100% card carrying atheist so don’t accept the concept of heaven or hell and think religion is morally wrong to threaten people with that. Life is good so don’t need religion as a crutch.

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:05

@Parker231 and that's your choice.
Is it an informed one? If the answer is yes, then you cannot complain over any consequences. An informed choice means you are aware of any potential risks even if you reject potentiality of those risks. If the choice is not informed, well there are plenty who will help you find out more. 🙂

TriOptimim · 09/12/2023 20:05

VincitVeritas1 · 09/12/2023 19:16

Hopefully this video will provide further explanation about Jesus' prayer in Garden of Gethsemane:

Where do you find hmthese people? His video on Israel and the end times is a trip. And they one about a woman's role in marriage? I bet you can guess how that one goes.

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:08

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:05

@Parker231 and that's your choice.
Is it an informed one? If the answer is yes, then you cannot complain over any consequences. An informed choice means you are aware of any potential risks even if you reject potentiality of those risks. If the choice is not informed, well there are plenty who will help you find out more. 🙂

Threats - consequences if I don’t comply! Why would I be worried about something I don’t believe exists?

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:12

Threats - consequences if I don’t comply! Why would I be worried about something I don’t believe exists?

@Parker231, can you think of a choice which involves no consequences? I don't think I can. Equal and opposite reaction and all that. If you see that as a threat well you must feel threatened a lot of the time unless you don't make your own choices but then that isn't freedom is it?

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:16

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:12

Threats - consequences if I don’t comply! Why would I be worried about something I don’t believe exists?

@Parker231, can you think of a choice which involves no consequences? I don't think I can. Equal and opposite reaction and all that. If you see that as a threat well you must feel threatened a lot of the time unless you don't make your own choices but then that isn't freedom is it?

So what might happen to me as a consequence? I find religion which threatens people for not complying very wrong. I’m not threatened as it doesn’t impact me.

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:26

@Parker231, So what might happen to me as a consequence? I find religion which threatens people for not complying very wrong. I’m not threatened as it doesn’t impact me.

You encounter the all powerful, creator God but cannot be in harmonious unity with Him because you do not accept Him. Does disunity not feel deeply uncomfortable to you when you are up close to it and cannot get away from it?

I think this is simply a consequence rather than a threat. It's like me inviting you round to my house and you refusing to cross the threshold because you say I stand for everything you hate. Maybe you might actually agree with some of the things I stand for but you wouldn't entertain the possibility. I am dead to you.

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:28

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:26

@Parker231, So what might happen to me as a consequence? I find religion which threatens people for not complying very wrong. I’m not threatened as it doesn’t impact me.

You encounter the all powerful, creator God but cannot be in harmonious unity with Him because you do not accept Him. Does disunity not feel deeply uncomfortable to you when you are up close to it and cannot get away from it?

I think this is simply a consequence rather than a threat. It's like me inviting you round to my house and you refusing to cross the threshold because you say I stand for everything you hate. Maybe you might actually agree with some of the things I stand for but you wouldn't entertain the possibility. I am dead to you.

As a don’t believe in god - hardly likely to meet him!

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:30

As a don’t believe in god - hardly likely to meet him!

@Parker231, the question is would you recognise Him if you did meet Him?

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:32

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:30

As a don’t believe in god - hardly likely to meet him!

@Parker231, the question is would you recognise Him if you did meet Him?

No - I don’t believe in imaginary characters - the figment of some people’s imagination.

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:36

@Parker231, you don't utilise your imagination? Don't you ever make plans? Or make any decisions? At the time of making a decision we can only ever imagine the outcome...

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:39

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:36

@Parker231, you don't utilise your imagination? Don't you ever make plans? Or make any decisions? At the time of making a decision we can only ever imagine the outcome...

Yes but I deal in reality when making decisions. In our family we have positive imaginary characters - Father Christmas, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.

1982mommaof4 · 09/12/2023 20:43

Well Santa allows me round for a mince pie one a year so it's just as likely my names on the list for those pearly gates... 🙃

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:47

Yes but I deal in reality when making decisions.

@Parker231, so you can tell the future? Decisions require imagination because you cannot know the outcome of an action until the action is taken.

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:49

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:47

Yes but I deal in reality when making decisions.

@Parker231, so you can tell the future? Decisions require imagination because you cannot know the outcome of an action until the action is taken.

When I make a decision, I deal in facts - has worked well in personal and professional life.

Parker231 · 09/12/2023 20:50

1982mommaof4 · 09/12/2023 20:43

Well Santa allows me round for a mince pie one a year so it's just as likely my names on the list for those pearly gates... 🙃

We include a good measure of whiskey - will that help me 🤣

1982mommaof4 · 09/12/2023 20:51

😂😂😂 absolutely!

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:56

When I make a decision, I deal in facts - has worked well in personal and professional life.

@Parker231, there is always an element of the unknot in terms of decision making otherwise you would be able to predict the future with a 100% reliability.

I have facts at my disposal but also my Christian faith. This is a huge comfort to me since there has been much uncertainty in my life. I have had to take many decisions with very little facts to go on.

heyhohello · 09/12/2023 20:57

Unknown not unknot.

Rabiz · 09/12/2023 21:07

Yes, because I believe we are all a part of God and we return to this form when the body dies. I believe this is a peaceful and loving state where we experience full knowledge , empathy, goodness and forgiveness, amd this blissful experience is “heaven”. I don’t believe in heaven and hell as physical
locations that we are sorted into to according to our actions as humans.

I believe that it may be difficult for some beings to forgive themselves for what they have done on Earth, and this may be understood as a self-imposed “hell” and sense of separation from God.