Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

I have no issue with what this man has said in the video posted upthread. I haven't watched many of his others, including the one on Israel. However, I also believe current events in the Middle East are fulfilling end times prophecy, as recorded in the book of Revelation and elsewhere in the Bible. Time is running out.

@VincitVeritas1 - why would me rejecting a god I don’t believe in, lead me to hate, turmoil, despair etc - I don’t have any of those in my life.

And yes I class an imaginary god as inferior - he doesn’t seem to have done much good for the world.

Essentially, rejecting God leads to eternal separation from God. So in the absence of the very source of life, love, light, peace, joy and healing, there is only left death, hate, darkness, turmoil, despair and sickness/pain.
If, in your opinion, I am ‘morally inferior’ then you must also consider God to be morally inferior. Jesus Himself (God in the flesh) spoke about the coming Judgement, when He returns to earth:

@Parker231 As in the previous thread, we sadly seem to be going around in circles. Very happy to hear you don't have any of those things in this life, but I was talking about the next.

OP I remember your previous thread and how utterly vile you were to someone who was simply widening a discussion about faith

If heaven is full of people who treat others like that then I won't be missing much when I don't get in

I did a flying visit to London last week (hence the being awake at all hours with jet lag!) and although we lived there for many years, I noticed the increase in the numbers sleeping on the streets - why haven’t these supposedly caring religious groups not opened the doors to churches like St Paul’s and Westminster Abbey so that the homeless can escape from the freezing cold?

@Parker231, many churches do work with the homeless and run shelters, kitchens and food banks etc, though. The Salvation Army for example, mention this in their yearly Christmas campaign. I don't know the complete rules but I suspect safeguarding might prevent some churches from simply opening the church building itself for people to sleep inside. I know more needs to be done, though but not just by the church. The government managed to provide accommodation for the homeless during lockdown but that since has been given a much lower priority. Equally churches are suffering from dwindling numbers and donations. As an atheist, where do you think your responsibility lies?

@heyhohello - we donate food and clothing to a local homeless charity here in Canada and DH donates his time as a doctor to a free clinic set up for use by the local homeless community.

@Parker231, that's great and I'm sure much appreciated! 🙂

No. I dont believe it. But I definitely won't anyway. Made too many mistakes.

No. I dont believe it. But I definitely won't anyway. Made too many mistakes

@Flyhigher, mistakes can be forgiven. We all make too many mistakes.

Thanks @heyhohello and @VincitVeritas1 for your super detailed responses, as well as @FatFatMary.

Do you mind if I ask a further question? It’s going to sound a bit trapping but I’m just phrasing it as it occurs to me.

Given that the determinant of eternal salvation is faith, what does He do about people like me with the potential to repent and regain faith, whose faith is in short supply at the moment though, and have had faith in the past? My health is very bad and if I were told I were on the final road to death tomorrow I’d probably accept it without regaining faith at the moment (been literally clinically dead and I didn’t pray at the last minute). But that doesn’t mean my soul is closed absolutely totally. I also try my absolute best to be good when I’m well, although the most I can be good at the moment is to my cat and boyfriend.

why do humans have to bow and retune their minds to the saviour that is Jesus when all we have to rely on is texts editing and translated by humans, if jesus himself wrote some books then id consider being a believer ?

I'd like to think Heaven exists. I had a bereavement this year. It's been tough,

Tonight I shouted out to ....? I don't know who, God? But I want a sign there is something else.

Given that the determinant of eternal salvation is faith, what does He do about people like me with the potential to repent and regain faith, whose faith is in short supply at the moment though, and have had faith in the past? My health is very bad and if I were told I were on the final road to death tomorrow I’d probably accept it without regaining faith at the moment (been literally clinically dead and I didn’t pray at the last minute). But that doesn’t mean my soul is closed absolutely totally. I also try my absolute best to be good when I’m well, although the most I can be good at the moment is to my cat and boyfriend.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau, I think you are in a better position to answer that question than I am. Reframing the question might help. How do you think you would be encountering Heaven where there is a complete harmonious unity with God? How would you feel about the elements of yourself that do not align with that? Would you let go of them, accept forgiveness so you could enter that harmonious unity? Or would they be a cause of suffering for you? Whether that means purgatory or something more lasting is something that individual church denominations differ in their beliefs upon. But all I would say is if you do what you can do now to minimise this it would be preferable.

Regarding faith, how much do you expect to understand? Have experiential evidence for? An appreciation for the necessity of faith can come when we truly acknowledge that we cannot understand everything, every right thing in every context because we have limitations as human beings, do not have all knowledge and do not know the future.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau, and I am sorry to hear of your health problems. I hope my reply will be constructive and provide a comfort to you rather than further worry.

This is always a difficult subject. And I apologise in advance if my reply is too clumsy to be of help. I dearly hope your health improves.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau
And it would be very unusual not to have any doubts ever, we all struggle with doubts. I have heard it said (on here) that doubt is not the opposite of faith, rather doubt is the opposite of certainty. Simply because faith involves hoping for something that we don't have any material evidence for. In my life I have had to cling onto hope. Statistics for people in my situation and in the situations of those close to me have not always been favourable. Let yourself hope, don't feel bad or stupid (as I sometimes have) for hoping.

"5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." (Romans 5:5 NIV)

Without being able to quote verse and chapter (though I think it’s probably John), I recall that somewhere in the gospels Jesus tells his disciples that if you have any faith at all, you have faith - it doesn’t matter whether it’s the odd flicker or blazing conviction, it’s there.

The verse you are thinking of can be found in Matthew 17:20, where Jesus speaks to his disciples about the power of faith. (NIV) of the Bible:

"He replied, 'Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.'"

That's presuming its the correct verse,

@heyhohello - what do you mean by this - “But all I would say is if you do what you can do now to minimise this it would be preferable.”

@Parker231, think it over. Think about how much you are prepared to accept forgiveness for mistakes made. Or whether you hold onto them even when forgiveness is offered, berating yourself. Or whether you are angry when shown something (state of mind/way of being) you have held onto is wrong because you want to cling onto it.

If I made a mistake, it’s my problem. If someone else makes one, it’s their problem. If an apology is offered by someone else, I accept it

If I made a mistake, it’s my problem. If someone else makes one, it’s their problem. If an apology is offered by someone else, I accept it

@Parker231 so you mean you forgive and accept forgiveness then?

Because those mistakes might affect you personally.

If someone apologises, I accept it and we move on. Saying you forgive them sounds overly formal and dramatic.

@Parker231, that depends on your common parlance. It varies between groups of people. But affectively you are describing forgiving others.

If you think being a Christian is just about avoiding hell and getting into heaven, I think it shows a pretty poor understanding of Christ and relationship with Him.