surprised to learn people still celebrate Xmas when they understand its origins

[PuppyDogEyes]

I have recently read about the origins of Christmas, and although a muslim, would always participate on a low level (i.e return cards, return merry christmas wishes etc)
But now i know the origins, cannot continue to do this.
However i was having a conversation with a group of friends and old colleagues (a mixture of religions), who all seem to know the origins and still celebrate christmas.
isn't that wrong?

what do you mean?

do you mean the whole "It's a big fat lie designed to help easily supercede local religions by taking over their key festivals with a relevant 'christo' celebration and that nobody really knows the date of birth anyway" or something else?

christmas is pretty secular these days tbh

I don't celebrate Xmas, I celebrate Christmas

Actually... we did this in Uni last week... it wasn't designed to be set up as a lie (as I also thought), there was a lot mroe integration between paganism and Christianity in the Church at the time, and it was actually seen as a collaborative way of assimilating customs already prevalent in the UK into the newly developing Church system.

And it wasn't automatically decreed that Christ was born that day either, they knew he wasn't- it was a date set for celebration that coincided with saturnalia, and there were links to the solstice but Saturnalia was the mroe closely followed tradition.

Crib etc- all part fo Christmas today- comes from St Francis of Assissi

In tradition, and still in soem Eastern Orthodox faitrhs, Advent a time of repentence and fasting- Christmas the celebration.

And no FC NOT inspired by coca cola- or St Nick (who was a nasty character)- best guesses are he was adapted from Wodin, who distributed gifts whilst flying through the sky. Coca cola just adapted the cloak.

I would think that a study of Chrsitmas would make it MORE acceptable to nonChristians (although I know Muslims object more strongly to the paganistic / polytheistic faithes than Christianity anyhow)

THe early church simply chose already festive dates for Christian celebrations - ie Christmas was celebrated at the time of the Winter Solstice. Nothing sinister.

Are the origins of Christmas as a secular festival more important than what it has developed into?
No more pagan than Christan these days for most people surely?

if it is offensive to say that people's beliefs are wrong there goes one of the key dinner party conversations of all time

it is never offensive to say that atheists are wrong though

It's not offensive to say you think people's beliefs (or lack of) are wrong surely? How you say it may be offensive - but just saying it?

what is your belief MMJ?

What offends one person may not offend another. I find the term Xmas offensive.

We can all come here and be offended by whatever we choose - it's one of the plesaures of the site!

PuppyDogEyes, you haven't elaborated too much on your POV.

What have you heard of the origins of Christmas, and why do you now have a problem with it, where you seemingly didn't before?

But merely by saying that I am a Catholic I am implicitly saying that I think all other faiths and denominations, not to mention atheism, are wrong.

I'd be interested to know which parts are the ones you have the issues with. I now the Qur'an / Hadith really doesn't tolerate the polytheistic faiths- is it that aspect of it you find impossible to get to grips with? I would suppose I can understand that from an Islamic perspective. BUT Christians aren't Islamic- Christianity evolved in a very different way to Islam. So just because a Muslim finds that aspect difficult, doesn't mean a Christian would.

Also people ahev a choice to celebrate what they wish- so someone might be celebrating Christ coming into the world; does it matter too much if he was born in May or September? Its the thnakfulness that matters then I think. Whereas most of the nation just seems to celebrate recieving a bulk delivery od Selection APcks- its their choice.

Terror you can think something is wrong without thinking of it as bad or imooral. There's a world of difference between incorrect and bad, iyswim. I'm not a Muslim but i don't think its bad, just not whaat I beleive.

thank you for the speedy responses.

mildmanneredaxemurder - i am not saying their belief is wrong. They actually said in the conversation that they know the date isn't right and that they know that alot of christmas traditions are based on pagan rituals and festivals.
so i am questioning isn't it wrong to celebrate something you know not to be correct representation of your faith?

PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs- interesting comments.

but all faith is made up out of superstition and rituals isn't it?

Ah. Wrong and wrong. I get you Peachy.

I was going for the 'incorrect' definition.

I don't find that offensive at all.

ok that sounded insulting

I meant basic belief then overlayed with superstition and ritual to create a religion

Lots of Christian celebrations have a pagan element but that doesn't detract from the 'point' of Christmas for Christians.

Peachy- whats wrong with St. Nicholas?

But Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different.