surprised to learn people still celebrate Xmas when they understand its origins

[PuppyDogEyes]

I have recently read about the origins of Christmas, and although a muslim, would always participate on a low level (i.e return cards, return merry christmas wishes etc)
But now i know the origins, cannot continue to do this.
However i was having a conversation with a group of friends and old colleagues (a mixture of religions), who all seem to know the origins and still celebrate christmas.
isn't that wrong?

Oh, I couldn't possibly speak for Christine.

Tellus - I know, but it's the vociferous one or two that spoil it for the rest, and to be fair, I was just sticking my two penneth in without much care for the opinions of others

dadtob - I dont think Jesus was creator. He is god in man's image. So not really his son. Except he is because God created him.

Do you see?

And no. Christians are monotheists, the same as you.

You have five (I believe) special prophets. Jesus is one of them in Islam. Muhammed is the last.

whoops its hard to play ps3 and type through my mobile

But don't listen to me, because according to that recent thread, I'm a 100% Hindu

Harpsi, you are darn right about Christianity becoming more flexible and tolerant until eventually you get to the CofE - that's why I like it.

Why is celebrating Christmas contrary to your beliefs, Puppydog?

It exists on many levels. For Christians, it is (fundamentally) a time to celebrate the birth of Christ. For atheists and agnostics, a time to be with your family, or just have some fun in the depths of winter.

Which of those offends you?

im confused.... but christians have god and then the son... if humans have children they a little humans if cats have children they are little cats (kittens). if god has a son isnt he little god hence doesnt that mean 2 gods

Go on, tellus - say it to edam too

(Although edam - you said it far better than me.....!)

datob- we don't have 2 Gods, we have 3 . Or more accurately we have the Trinity, which is 1 God revealed to us as 3 persons, each distinct but each united perfectly to form a single Deity

No, it's a Holy Trinity: God the father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit (aka the Holy Ghost). Three in one - all different aspects of the one true God.

Dadtob ... only if you're a muslim

It makes perfect sense to us, honest.

Mainstream Christians don't take things literally. Of course God couldn't have a son, you arse

You must look beyond the text, in any religion. Then you will find the meaning of faith.

Your confused!?!

He is The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. All of them.

He created Jesus, but Jesus is him. Jesus is his son, and he is the Father. But not his father in the true sense.

It's all very confusing. Christinas, come and help me out

In secular terms, the Holy Trinity equates to the Soul, the Spirit, and the Personality.

I'm sure we've all felt that sharp division on occasion.

It's a Mystery Ivaine. The mystery of the Holy Trinity. You're not supposed to understand it

OH dear god....

You're

Tellus...I feel like donning a ginger wig and breaking into song

Hmm the Jesus as son thing is complex- some theologians beleive it was a gradual adoption (eg partly at bapttism), other believe He was born as God's son. The Human and the divine co-exist in the same shell.

can upload an entire essay on how Christians, Jewish and Muslims ahre same God if you want? (and that would require a very evil indeed mwahahaha laugh LOL) - but the gist si that they all do as they share the same foundatins, Jesus is NOT a God and neither is Muhamamd- 'Muslims believe the first prophet was Adam, while the last prophet and rasul was Muhammad, thus his title Seal of the Prophets. Isa (Jesus) is the result of a virgin birth in Islam as in Christianity, and is regarded as a nabi because he received a wahi from God. Jesus is also considered to be one of the rasul as God revealed the Injil (Gospel) to him.[1] Contrary to Christianity, in Islam, it is heresy to claim that God had a son.

Muslims believe that God has sent over 124,000 messengers all over the world as mentioned in the Sahih Hadith. However, of these, five (sometimes known as Ulul Azmi or the Imams ? i.e. leaders ? of the Rasuls) are the most commonly revered for their perseverance and unusually strong commitment to God in the face of great suffering. These five are Nuh (Noah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Isa (Jesus), and Muhammad.'

The key basically si that the Jews don't beleive the Messiah has arrived yet (apart from Messianic Judaism which is where it gets fiddly). The Christians believe Jesus to be the Messiah. The Muslims beleive that God sent each nation a book but those books were lost of corrupted; He ahd to continue the ine of Prophets beyomg Jesus so that the true owrd could be transmitted- no more Prophets may come, as Muhammad is the Seal.

It really seems to depend on where you stop believing the newer stuff, really.

As an atheist, I'm quite happy with marking the turning of the seasons, and would happily attend friends' religious event celebrations that are seasonal parties or celebrations of rites of passage open to well-wishers not of the particular faith in question.
As regards Xmas, one of the reasons I'm happy to celebrate it is that it's such a mishmash of different mythologies and, at bottom, the idea is 'let's cheer ourselves up in the depths of winter'.

This is perhaps why I'm one of those rare people who actually doesn't mind about councils calling it 'winterval' and suggesting that putting up lights in town centres should be about Diwali/CHanukah/Solstice as well as Christmas. But if they are going to do that, I think they should include a mix of seasonally relevant mythological symbols (I'm not naming specifics as my knowledge is not wide enough) along with the snowmen and candles.

ok so mary is the mother of god, yet god himself said to mary 'be' and he was born from mary.... and who did jesus pray to?

BTW my prof- a very welle stablished Theologian and expert on Islam and fundamnentalism- says the one concept he cannot grasp is the true nature of the Trinity. He says he thinks he gets it, and then- relaises its all gone and he's back to the start.

So us mere mortals who have to do other things than consider academia all day long have ZERO chance!

Jesus was Jewish, that is not in doubt! Christianity is later.... it's formed from a combination of the belief in the resurrection and the subsequently developing Christology, but the split was a few years later.

"Our Father, who art in heaven...."

I'm guessing his Father/God.

but someone said jesus and the father is one so prayed to himself?