surprised to learn people still celebrate Xmas when they understand its origins

[PuppyDogEyes]

I have recently read about the origins of Christmas, and although a muslim, would always participate on a low level (i.e return cards, return merry christmas wishes etc)
But now i know the origins, cannot continue to do this.
However i was having a conversation with a group of friends and old colleagues (a mixture of religions), who all seem to know the origins and still celebrate christmas.
isn't that wrong?

i am not a christian, i don't follow any particular religion. however i still celebrate christmas. but to me it is a celebration of giving, of being thankful for what we have and spending precious time with our families. i have a christmas tree and mistle-toe, it's tradition rather than religion.

i have told ds the story of christmas, but presented it to him as exactly that, a story.

I'm not saying to be a christian you should do this or that. because i'm not a christian, and no matter what my faith i would not dictate to you what you should or shouldn't do.

i suppose i'm just wondering if the traditions and religion around christmas conflict and whether that is relevant to today's christians? or even if they should be relevant.

i often hear a lot of people complain that the true meaning of christmas is lost.

oh and didn't realise the term Xmas was not a suitable shortening of Christmas -sorry! you live and learn!

just for the record PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs

why was St Nick horrible?

My ex dh, (who is horrible) has his birthday on St Nick's day, Dec 6th and as a kiddie he always used to have his boots with sweeties on St Nick's day morning( he is from Germany).

There's quite a it in the Bible that not conclusive- for example (sorry if this is a bit the da vinci code but its theologya s well as promise!) if Jesus had been an unmarried Jew, it would have been a HUGE thing- a central tenet of Judaism was the familya nd reproduction thing. Yet the Gospels suggesting jesus was in a relationship (is it St Thomas?) are frowned upon. The Bible isn't a historical document- its a colection of stories edited right down. That doesn't mean the stories are 9or aren't) true; just that there is no way they can encompass everything, iyswim? if the editors ahd selected the Gospel of St Thomas as a gospel over say, mark then the Bible would be very different- but jesus would still be the same figure, as would his ultimate messsage

I think a lot of pagan traditions Do have relevance to Christian beliefs. Christmas trees represent imortality and reproduction, holly represents the future suffering of Christ with the crown of thorns etc. I don't think that is important that these things have developed from another culture. They are relevent to my faith today and serve as reminders of Christian belief. The facts about which day Christmas should be celebrated on etc are irrelevent imo. Btw Dec 25 may have been chosen for Jewish rather than pagen reasons. As a prophet, jesus death would have traditionally occured on the date of his conception hence 9 months between Christmas and Easter.

Puppy- lots of people are offended by Xmas as it suggests leaving Christ out of Christmas. Other people aren't offended as X is greek for Chi. The letters Chi and Rho (X and P) are super imposed onto one another to form a Christian symbol.

Again, let me thank you for your replies, i think PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs reply
on Fri 26-Oct-07 19:10:43, seems to make sense to me. and professorplum's (i think, first) message on page 1.

The other one I have heard is taht X is a cross, of copurse. I still tend not to sue it though

By themildmanneredaxemurderer on Fri 26-Oct-07 18:38:32
and there are lots of aspects of islam that aren't in the koran but that are followed as they are traditions that have come from interpretations of the koran....

incorrect....if people follow innovations that is nothing to do with islam that is culture and misguidance, koran is clear as the blue sky on a summers day.

PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs - i think you should start i thread about FC i think people would find that very interesting.
you seem to have some knowledge about FC.
I seem to have heard so many differing opinions and stories on his origin, and it would be interesting to hear other peoples take on him.

sorry to change to subject a bit everyone!

By themildmanneredaxemurderer on Fri 26-Oct-07 18:24:47
i believe that at christmas i celebrate the birth of christ whose teachings i try to follow.

i don't care that he probably was born in march, that the festival is really a solstice celebration-because i think that is an equally valid celebration

do u celebrate ure birthday months b4?
jesus should be loved and respected on his own merits and not by using pagan rituals like evergreen trees, mistletoes,. isnt that being a hyprocrite beliving jesus and god and yet doing things he taught against?

jesus should be loved all year round

"a lot of christmas traditions are based on pagan rituals and festivals."
nope, that's wrong imo.
a lot of Christmas traditions are the pagan rituals and festivals. and why not? we are free to celebrate our traditions if we like. they go back hundreds and thousands of years.
mixed in with the traditional festival are some Christian elements.
we are all free to celebrate in whatever way we choose.
same with Easter and for that matter Halloween

ooo I had never heard of the Thomas Gospels before .. now that was interesting wikki reading

dadtob .. please don't textspeak on the forum .. there's plenty space for the whole entire word .. thanks

By harpsicorpsecarrier on Fri 26-Oct-07 19:57:57
"a lot of christmas traditions are based on pagan rituals and festivals."
nope, that's wrong imo.
a lot of Christmas traditions are the pagan rituals and festivals. and why not? we are free to celebrate our traditions if we like. they go back hundreds and thousands of years.
mixed in with the traditional festival are some Christian elements.
we are all free to celebrate in whatever way we choose.
same with Easter and for that matter Halloween

yes you free...but your involving jesus, and if we belive and love jesus he should be respected. not mixed with rituals from pagans.

pigleto - that's true for me too, except the last one
Christmas persists because it meets a deep seated need in all of us, to celebrate kinship and friendship and children and the passing of time
I think for one religion or another to attempt to own it or disallow it is extraordinarily narrow minded, and shows an inability or an unwillingness to recognise our need for tradition and ritual and all that

By themildmanneredaxemurderer on Fri 26-Oct-07 20:01:58
""you find me a single place anywhere in the bible where jesus said we should not celebrate using evergreens /misletoe /christmas trees/fairy lights/blow up santas-any of it.

i do love jesus all year round just as i love my sons all year round-doesn't mean we don't celebrate their birthdays."

well where does he say he ,i was born on the 25th, celebrate my birthday.... it is our duty to question our faith and look fvor the truth

dadtob, I am not involving Jesus! why on earth would you think that or say that?

"a lot of christmas traditions are based on pagan rituals and festivals."
nope, that's wrong imo."

Why do you think this is wrong? harps

By themildmanneredaxemurderer on Fri 26-Oct-07 20:06:44
""it is also our duty to learn how to write properly.""

lets make a deal i will learn to write properly if you promise to look into this more deeply and question yourself regarding rituals and jesus.

Where does it say specifically in the bible not to celebrate the birth of Christ?