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Original poster

Where does belief in God come from?

400 replies

TooBusyByHalf · 14/04/2015 18:35

I want to believe in God but I just don't. Can't make it make sense. Am vaguely thinking of returning to the church anyway, without faith, cos I like the singing and smells and all that but I think that would be dishonest.
Atheists, I know, ok? Smile No need to explain why not to believe. Thank you.
Believers, why? Where does your faith come from?

OP posts:
niminypiminy · 14/04/2015 19:27

My faith started out as a vague wanting to believe, a pull to going to church. I'd been an atheist most of my life (and was not brought up in a church-going family, far from it they're all red-hot atheists). It was a longing for something That I couldn't put a name too. It was quite scary, and felt really weird- I had no idea what people would think if I walked into a church. I had no idea what it would be like.

After putting it off for ages I finally did go. It was weird and I wasn't sure I liked it at all, but I kept on being pulled back. I thought 'I can't believe in all this stuff!' But on the other hand I'd feel overwhelmed by tears. I started to find myself praying.i had moments of peace and joy, and lots of times when I felt like 'I can't believe I'm here and falling for all this!'

Gradually it dawned on me that believing is a bit like the dawn. There isn't one moment when you can definitively say, at the time, now it's day, it has stopped being night. It gradually gets lighter and lighter until without doubt it is day. Belief's like that. I didN't have a conversion experience as in a single moment when I suddenly believed . It's more that there came a point where I could look back and realise that faith had been growing in me. And I am sure that it was God calling me, pulling me to church, it was encountering God that made me cry; made me want to pray. And though I still have times when I think 'what on earth am I doing!' My faith has stayed and strengthened.

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 14/04/2015 21:12

I'm one of the minority of Christians who had a conversion experience. I like niminypiminy's description of the dawn and not quite knowing when night becomes day but it wasn't like that for me. No gentle dawning for me, I was there in the bright sunlight encountering the living God and looking back I think that I needed that kick up the backside to get me going in faith. I don't know that I've had an experience as intense as that first moment which was 30+ years ago but I continue to encounter the triune God in worship, in prayer, study and social action.

Theknacktoflying · 14/04/2015 21:31

My belief and Christianity requires a certain leap of faith - I don't think it was a suspension of critical thinking, but more an active decision to believe.

I like niminy's explanation and for me there was more a gradual belief than some Damascene reveal. I will reveal that I went to a very popular Christian conversion course - going from almost no belief to talking in tongues - and if anything it made me quite angry and felt quite bullied.

I think it is easier to look back and see belief growing in hindsight rather than something you can judge in the moment.

KingOfTheBongo · 14/04/2015 21:59

My story is a bit of a mix of pp's stories. I was brought up RC, but was agnostic for as long I can remember. During my 30's, I became vaguely drawn to going to mass again, which I eventually started to do. Being confronted by all the old religious stories from my youth, I decided to investigate them properly once and for all. I read many books from both theist and atheist writers, and watched a lot of debates on the internet. In the end, I decided that the theist arguments made far more sense than the typical naturalist atheist arguments. So for me, it was an intellectual decision, although I do believe that God invoked it in me by bringing me back into a church, something for which there was no reason otherwise.

Original poster
TooBusyByHalf · 14/04/2015 22:06

Thank you all.

Greenheart, could you explain what happened when you had that conversion experience? Or is that too personal?

Knack, it's the leap part I can't do. I feel like I need someone to prove Gods existence to me. Difficult I know!

Niminy, I guess I'm a bit scared of what you describe. Sometimes I secretly go to the church near my office (it has tourists sometimes but usually empty) and just sit there and think. It's peaceful. I think I'm simultaneously wondering about whether there could be a god and terrified I might suddenly believe - which would be pretty tricky given the pretty strongly atheist circles I move in.

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sunnyspot · 14/04/2015 22:10

Last week our sermon was about coming to faith. The priest said that he has lost count of the number of people who say to him " I wish I could believe but just can't/don 't" - just what you said OP in your original post.
He went on to say that that desire to believe is the first step on the journey to believing.. It can be a very very long journey, but so very worthwhile if you embark on it.

Original poster
TooBusyByHalf · 14/04/2015 22:20

King, any particular books you'd recommend? I've tried reading stuff on the internet but very little I've seen goes beyond bible extracts - which are never going to help unless you are already committed to that - and the sort of 'there must be a god because isn't the sunrise beautiful'- type argument which doesn't do it for me either. I'd like to read something a bit more helpful.
As I mentioned I feel pretty well versed in reasons to be atheist, so I don't need a reading list on that side!

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niminypiminy · 14/04/2015 22:29

TooBusy, I know exactly what you mean. I used to go secretly to church near where I work, and I used to kind of sidle out of the building hoping that noone would ask where I was going. I too moved in strongly atheist circles (although I much less so now) and I felt scorched by scorn I imagined my friends and family feeling for me. I was equally longing to believe and terrified of believing. It was horrible, I felt like I was stuck in a doorway - neither in nor out, and couldn't move either way.

In the end, I think God was stronger. It wasn't so much a leap of faith as a kind of 'ok, God, I give in, I'll give it a go but, look, I'm still crossing my fingers, oh, ok I'm not crossing my fingers any more, but hey, I'm still not one of those Christians, oh, maybe, uh oh, ok well maybe I might be...'

Like KingoftheBongo I did a lot of reading. Ideas and reason are important to me, and I couldn't assent to something that didn't stack up intellectually. So the process was long, and full of difficulty. I had to critically re-examine all my ideas and prejudices. But the bit of sitting in the church and being caught up in a yearning I didn't want and found frankly alarming came first. That was the seed of everything that came after.

niminypiminy · 14/04/2015 22:33

The book I found the best out of everything that I read was Tokens of Trust by Rowan Williams. A more recent book that I found absolutely compelling was Francis Spufford's Unapologetic - I really recommend that. Not only is it very funny (and very sweary) in places, but it's got an absolutely brilliant re-imagining of the gospel narrative, and the single best description of what prayer is all about that I've ever read.

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 14/04/2015 22:37

Yes it is personal and it is hard to explain because when there is an encounter with the divine words just can't do the experience justice. The nearest I can get to a description is that one minute I was arguing with a God I didn't believe in because I was cross about something which I didn't think was fair and God shouldn't allow and the next minute I was overwhelmed by such a feeling of love and peace and there was the God I didn't believe in. It was all a bit embarrassing really as most of the Christians I knew at university were very uncool. I visited a few churches and ended up making friends with a group of mature Christians who were theologians, writers, artists and philosophers and I learnt a huge amount from them.

I think the desire to have the existence of God proved is a bit of a red herring myself. I suspect that the God people want proof of is not really God but a projection of the perfect parent who will take charge and make everything right. To encounter God is to encounter perfect love and in that light our imperfections and the mask we hold between ourselves and the world is revealed for what it is. To let God in; to say 'I'm not sure I believe but let us spend some time together and see what happens' is a first step in a journey and like any first step requires determination and a bit of courage. Risky, yes but worth it.

Original poster
TooBusyByHalf · 14/04/2015 22:49

Thanks Niminy. Have to go to a bookshop - there are some things you don't want landing on the doormat! How ridiculous is that.... Hmm

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niminypiminy · 14/04/2015 22:58

A kindle is a wonderful thing for reading stuff you don't want people to know you are reading Wink

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 14/04/2015 23:00

One book you could try is John Lennox 'Gunning for God; Why the New Atheists are Missing the Target.' The first 2/3 of the book examines the new atheist arguments but you might want to skip that and look at the last 1/3 which looks at miracles and the resurrection which are two subjects that atheists do find tricky.

Original poster
TooBusyByHalf · 15/04/2015 10:22

Ha Niminy! I'd have to get a second amazon account

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niminypiminy · 15/04/2015 11:46
Grin
fulltothebrim · 15/04/2015 13:23

miracles and the resurrection which are two subjects that atheists do find tricky.Hmm

PLease don't make such assumptions.

Original poster
TooBusyByHalf · 15/04/2015 14:06

Perhaps 'find tricky' wasn't the right phrase but surely it's fair to assume that atheists in general don't believe in the resurrection or miracles, isn't it?
I'm an atheist and I don't.

OP posts:
fulltothebrim · 15/04/2015 14:41

Yes, it's fair, but I don't find a non belief in zombies in any way tricky.

Vivacia · 15/04/2015 18:01

I want to believe in God

Which one?

Hakluyt · 15/04/2015 18:03

"t.
"Atheists, I know, ok? smile No need to explain why not to believe. Thank you.
Believers, why? Where does your faith come from?"

Does this mean you only want responses from believers?

Hakluyt · 15/04/2015 18:04

"looks at miracles and the resurrection which are two subjects that atheists do find tricky."

Why do we find them tricky? In what way?

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 15/04/2015 18:15

The zombie comment is offensive but then you know that fulltothebrim.

The John Lennox book would be good for toobusybyhalf as she says that she knows the atheist arguments but has only come across bible quotes online. So I've suggested a book by an Oxford professor who is a Christian and is used to debating with the new atheists so he speaks the language.

Original poster
TooBusyByHalf · 15/04/2015 18:27

Vivacia, I don't know. I was brought up C of E so I have more understanding of that religion but since I don't believe in any god at present it could be any. To be Christian you have to believe in Christ too and I'm certainly not that far down the road. Maybe I should have said I want to believe there is more to life than this.

Hakluyt, it means what it says - I want to hear people's experience of how they found faith in God.

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Vivacia · 15/04/2015 19:26

I think you should do a bit of research of all the different gods. Perhaps I shouldn't admit this, but I often think the Greek/Roman gods and goddesses were a pretty neat concept and if I had to choose a faith, I'd choose them.

fulltothebrim · 15/04/2015 19:30

greenheart- i find it offensive that you suggest I should find the idea of the "resurrection and "miracles" tricky.
A very arrogant assumption.

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