Where does belief in God come from?

[TooBusyByHalf]

I want to believe in God but I just don't. Can't make it make sense. Am vaguely thinking of returning to the church anyway, without faith, cos I like the singing and smells and all that but I think that would be dishonest.
Atheists, I know, ok? No need to explain why not to believe. Thank you.
Believers, why? Where does your faith come from?

variance in their descriptions

That's a ridiculous analogy. Imagine we both know Bob. I say Bob is disgusted with homosexuality and says it isn't natural and an abomination, but Bob has told you that he has set up a charity that goes into schools educating children about LGBT issues and promoting equality. Which one is it? What do you think his position on it is? And there will be many other christians who will disagree who have a similar background and have been a christian as long and are in the same type of congregation. Either God is telling people different things, why? Or people are just making up their own minds on what they think God would say about it, interpreting their own values as God speaking to them.

As for consensus, no two christians believe the same set of things.

I know you won't state what you think god's thoughts on LGBT are but think about why you won't say what he feels about that when you are happy to say his thoughts on all manner of other things.

As I said before it's not that I think you are a bigot, I think you have identified a disconnect between two of your internal values and that you are morally more sophisticated than the model that Christianity offers.

I know you won't state what you think god's thoughts on LGBT are but think about why you won't say what he feels about that when you are happy to say his thoughts on all manner of other things.

This statement misrepresents me. I discussed this issue at some length, on this thread, with you.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/2340458-Religion-is-good-because-it-gives-the-believer-an-objective-and-absolute-standard-of-morality

And I believe, generally, we cannot condemn anyone, ourselves, regarding any action, although we can advise and point them to scripture. It is up to God to judge them.

You might find this series of documentaries interesting, head.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/group/b05qsll9

that statement misrepresents me

If I remember rightly you dodged it by saying it was between God and the persons conscience and I pointed out you wouldn't feel the need to say that if it was hetero relationships which you took to mean I thought you were a bigot when not at all, I was pointing out your reluctance to speak forthrightly revealing that you are forced to straddle outdated views on sex and your 21st century morality. Unless I misinterpreted it all. Could you say in less than 20 words what God thinks/wants?

head I believe everything is between God and an individual, according to their conscience. This includes all types of sexual and non sexual relationships. Whether they be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or platonic, they all are capable of being dysfunctional and therefore sinful.

The key thing, as I see it, it to act in love. Jesus was merciful and forgave. He did not condemn the adulterous woman or the woman who had had many husbands.

Jesus did not say anything specifically about homosexuality, as I recall.

I believe everything is between God and an individual

At least we agree that churches are meaningless then.

I don't think churches are meaningless full. I I do not believe their purpose should be to condemn, though, that is all.

jesus did not say anything specifically...

What would you say to a christian who believes God is opposed to gay relationships due to the writings of Paul and the Old Testament and says that that is what God has said to them in their prayer and reflection times?

I would say what I have told you and point them to the scriptures regarding the overriding priority to act in love, head.

So it's possible that God has told person A he blesses their gay relationship and is happy for them to marry and enjoy a sexual relationship while he simultaneously has told person B that homosexuality is a perversion and while he loves them they must remain celibate. That is completely unjust and cruel.

No, head. I don't believe you can categorise a lawful consensual adult sexual relationship as wholly good or bad solely based on who it is between. People's perceptions of what a truly loving relationship consists of and what is Godly in terms of this, may vary, but God remains the same. Love, putting others before yourself and mercy is a priority, this much is clear.

So the many Christians who say that homosexual relationships are wrong per se are mistaken?

Hak it mentions in the documentary series, I linked to, that at one time all sex was considered sinful and celibacy was the most holy choice. I wonder what those people would think about that...

Hak it mentions in the documentary series, I linked to, that at one time all sex was considered sinful and celibacy was the most holy choice. I wonder what those people would think about that...

And now?

I think celibacy can still be an act of devotion to God as can enjoying a loving sexual relationship - but neither necessarily is. It depends what context it is done in. If it is just done in an attempt to parade your own 'holiness' in front of others I think the devotional aspect is negated.

So the many Christians who say that homosexual relationships are wrong per se are mistaken?

Head, the point being made was that Big has somehow got it into her head that none of the Christians on MN think that the bible is of any value. I have read the posts on this thread and as far as I have seen, not one Christian here has said that.

What filter do you think she was overlaying onto people's posts have lead to her to come to this conclusion?

Hak Theologically I am aware there are arguments on both sides. I'm not particularly well versed in them, though. However, Colossians 2 20-23 says this:

"So, then, if with Christ you’ve put all that pretentious and infantile religion behind you, why do you let yourselves be bullied by it? “Don’t touch this! Don’t taste that! Don’t go near this!” Do you think things that are here today and gone tomorrow are worth that kind of attention? Such things sound impressive if said in a deep enough voice. They even give the illusion of being pious and humble and ascetic. But they’re just another way of showing off, making yourselves look important." (MSG)

So basically I think the Christians who obsess over what consenting adults do in private are missing what is most important, which is Christ's overriding message of love and mercy. What is worse is they are potentially alienating people from the Christian church. Added to this Romans 14 stresses how everyone should act according to their own conscience and not judge others, as well as being considerate not to offend, either. So yes they are mistaken.

Even though they are as convinced they are following the word of God as you are?

You sound as if you want to convince me I am wrong on this, Hak!