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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

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Original poster

Where does belief in God come from?

400 replies

TooBusyByHalf · 14/04/2015 18:35

I want to believe in God but I just don't. Can't make it make sense. Am vaguely thinking of returning to the church anyway, without faith, cos I like the singing and smells and all that but I think that would be dishonest.
Atheists, I know, ok? No need to explain why not to believe. Thank you.
Believers, why? Where does your faith come from?

OP posts:

Hakluyt · 26/04/2015 20:19

No. I think you are right. What I am trying to understand is why a different Christian can be equally sure that their diametrically opposed point of view is also right. Having read and thought about the same texts and prayed to the same God for guidance.

capsium · 26/04/2015 20:30

Because we all have different strengths and weaknesses, Hak and hence different perceptions. A Christian's personal relationship with God and their own understanding develops in an individual way, over time.

Hakluyt · 26/04/2015 20:34

Right. So if you call yourself a Christian, anything you think or believe is OK if you sincerely believe it.

capsium · 26/04/2015 20:41

Sort of, Hak but I say this in faith, that the Holy Spirit will convict a Christian, who truly believes on Christ, of what is wrong. So they have to truly seek Him and heed His voice (direction).

capsium · 26/04/2015 20:43

So this would not result in being able to comfortably think or believe anything, only the things which are of God, who I believe is good.

Hakluyt · 26/04/2015 21:00

And it never crossed God's mind that this might be an issue? That two people could be doing diametrically opposed things sincerely in his name?

capsium · 26/04/2015 21:16

Sincerely is the moot point. But, yes, God knows all, the beginning from the end. But considering we have free will and are flawed, it is understandable that people can make mistakes in their ignorance. This why we have laws to protect us ourselves from each other and why we all are in need of forgiveness.

Original poster

TooBusyByHalf · 26/04/2015 21:28

Do all Christian - atheist 'debate' threads turn into arguments about why some Christians are homophobic?
Seriously though head hak and others, why does it matter to you what caps believes? Why not just live and let live?

OP posts:

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 26/04/2015 22:09

TooBusyByHalf

If you hang out here for long enough you will discover that you are trapped in a MN version of Groundhog Day, destined to experience the same debate between the same debaters ad infinitum.

Get out while you still can ... if you value your sanity!

niminypiminy · 26/04/2015 22:44

Everything Outwith said is true. Very occasionally someone comes along and says something thoughtful (Outwith is notable for this in fact). Otherwise it's quite like being in Sartre's version of hell.

DioneTheDiabolist · 26/04/2015 22:58

There are a few atheists here who seem to style themselves on the Westboro Baptists Toobusy.

Welcome to Philosophy, Religion & Spirituality, where some posters feel they need to come onto the threads and try to convert others to atheism by telling everyone else that they are wrong, stupid and dangerous.

fulltothebrim · 27/04/2015 06:53

considering we have free will and are flawed,

You may be flawed capsium, but very rude to suggest that of others.
I am not flawed. I am human.

fulltothebrim · 27/04/2015 06:59

where some posters feel they need to come onto the threads and try to convert others to atheism by telling everyone else that they are wrong, stupid and dangerous.hmm

I'm alright Jack.

I was forced to recite the lord's prayer every day at school.
As were my children, just a couple of years ago. Daily discussions of jesus, Noah, regular visits from local clergy to the school. Posters up everywhere in the school telling kids that "jesus is my superhero" THis is a state "non faith " school.
Yet you criticise us for "feeling the need" to discuss these issues.

Get a grip. If your kids were being fed a daily diet of the koran and set to pray daily would you be compliant?

capsium · 27/04/2015 07:11

So you are an utterly perfect human being full? You are without any flaw and never make mistakes? Wow.

fulltothebrim · 27/04/2015 07:16

Being human does not mean "perfect". You totally miissed my point.

My "flaws" are part of my make up. But I accept that I am not "perfect". Nor would I want to be.
What you see as flaws I see as part of me being a homo sapien animal.

Who would want to be a Stepford wife?

capsium · 27/04/2015 07:25

My "flaws" are part of my make up. But I accept that I am not "perfect". Nor would I want to be.
What you see as flaws I see as part of me being a homo sapien animal.

As I believe all humans have flaws, I, too, believe it is innate. So why be so upset by me saying this? Why do you consider it rude to say we are flawed?

fulltothebrim · 27/04/2015 07:31

Because I am not flawed. I am human.

Hakluyt · 27/04/2015 07:32

"Seriously though head hak and others, why does it matter to you what caps believes? Why not just live and let live?"

Happy to, if nobody else wants to talk about it. But a) others seem perfectly willing to join in the debate b) I am interested, and particularly interested in this idea of how Christians decide what to believe-homosexuality is simply a useful example when views held by Christians are polarised and, incidentally, c) Christians in this country are not prepared to "live and let live".

capsium · 27/04/2015 08:12

full

My "flaws" are part of my make up. But I accept that I am not "perfect". Nor would I want to be.

Because I am not flawed. I am human.

So you accept you are not perfect. The OED defines 'perfect' as this:

"1.1Free from any flaw or defect in condition or quality; faultless:
the equipment was in perfect condition."

So you are not 'free from flaw' yet you have no flaws, you describe yourself as "not flawed".

fulltothebrim · 27/04/2015 08:23

capium- is perfection what you strive towards?

You seem to have missed my use of inverted commas capsium.

capsium · 27/04/2015 08:36

I accept that I will not be fully perfect in this life full.

I am still struggling to understand what you mean, though, by saying you are not flawed, you are human whilst accepting you are not perfect. I am also struggling to understand why you thought I was being rude to say we 'are flawed'.

As far as I can see it, we both accept we are not perfect (perfect means without flaw), we both accept we are human - why is there disagreement?

fulltothebrim · 27/04/2015 08:46

What's with al this idealism of perfection.

Setting yourself up to fail. Striving to be like your god capium?

capsium · 27/04/2015 09:05

Is it setting yourself up to fail to acknowledge that there is better than what you have achieved in the past? To actively want to improve? I accept I am not perfect and have said this, but yes, I do want to improve.

I actually think it is setting yourself up to fail to decide, since you are human with limitations, there is no point aiming any higher, than you have acheived already...

DioneTheDiabolist · 27/04/2015 11:32

No grip need Full. Telling people that they are wrong, stupid and dangerous for believing differently to you is a world away from sensible discussion regarding collective worship in schools.

Hakluyt · 27/04/2015 14:02

"elling people that they are wrong, stupid and dangerous for believing differently to you is a world away from sensible discussion regarding collective worship in schools."

I always find it interesting that the couple of posters who do that always seem to carry more weight than the majority who don't.

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