First Pregnancy Missed Miscarriage (Part 4)

[Kiki061190]

Hi ladies!

Our previous thread is now full so I’ve made a new one 😘

@Kiki061190 Haha, no, tbh I've been trying to squeeze in some things that I didn't manage to do much of before I got pg the first time, like cycling, surfing etc. I got pg quicker than I thought and didn't have the time to enjoy the summer. So I've done most of it now, plus some other activities to live my best life. I also want to keep active, even if it's just through going for walks etc. I'm probably a stone heavier than I was 6 months ago (through feeling sorry for myself and not exercising in my first pg - I felt exactly the same as you) and I need to watch myself more now. I say this now, but I know it's very hard in pg, fatigue is overwhelming and if you're not great with eating either, it's hard. Your plans sound good - and our OH's are nearly birthday twins too, we celebrated DH's birthday this week 😊 I know what you mean re money, we're nearly at the finish line with renovating our house, bits that are left will have to wait, but there isn't much. Now I'm saving up for a new car. It's just endless, isn't it, can't even imagine what it's like with children! But I guess people make it work and no doubt we will too. 😊

Also I'm 5 DPO now, still around 5 days before AF is due, assuming another 35 day cycle xxx

@Kiki061190 Re the bump, are you around 10 wks now? I think that's very likely it's your pg bump then, that's just lovely ❤️😊

@MrsMGE I know everyone says you just make it work with babies! I’m hoping I’ll feel better in the second trimester so I can exercise more. How exciting! Your BFP won’t be far away! ♥️ Yes 10 weeks which feels surreal to say. Just hoping to make it to that 12 week scan and get some good news! How sweet our OHs are so close in bdays 😊

Morning ladies. I've been doing some reading on extending the luteal phase of the cycle and I'm wondering what your views/experiences are in respect of agnus castus and soy isoflavones? It's all very confusing, I've read contradictory opinions online. In particular, I read contradictory views re agnus castus - how long it should be taken, whether it can be taken past ovulation and throughout the first trimester, and whether it does actually help with regulating progesterone levels. Some people said it messed up their estrogen-progesterone balance.

Soy isoflavones mostly seem to be getting raving reviews, but there's a lot online that they should not be taken by women with cycles of 35 days or less who ovulate naturally.

I am thinking about focusing strictly on my diet until the end of this year, and possibly trying some natural remedies if I don't get a BFP beforehand. I primarily would like to ensure my LP is longed and progesterone levels are right. One one hand, I'd rather try something natural before going to the doctors, but on the other hand obviously I don't want to mess up my cycles.

Also, I don't know if anything has happened this cycle yet as it's too early, and of course I'm not planning on taking anything now. I'm just debating whether I should buy something to start early next cycle in case of a BFN. Thoughts? Xxx

@MrsMGE I’m not really sure about natural remedies. I’ve never tried any. I think as long as your LP is 9-10 days minimum you are ok. Maybe give it a cycle or two and see what they are like because you might find you are absolutely fine and conceive in that time. I tried pre conception vitamins the first cycle after MMC and it made my cycle shorter 😳 the next one I used nothing at all and it worked!

@SunStruck Is it this Sunday you are testing???

Hey @MrsMGE when I was younger I took Agnus Castus to regulate my periods. It took a while but it did work. I have mild pcos though so I'm not sure what it does if cycles more normal length. After the mc it did nothing as I think my cycles were too messed up. As for Soy Isoflavones I was told they can mess your cycle up, especially if you have a normalish cycle or pcos. It's a bit like the natural clomid. The difference being you're monitored closely on clomid to make sure the ovaries are responding. I just wish they would give you a referral to the fertility clinic for support. xx

So ladies I had another scan today. All good and developing nicely. I'm 10 plus 5 today. Baby was throwing its arms in the way and kicking its legs. Feeling very relieved. I'm still being sick but its feeling a bit better. We managed to walk around a stately home this afternoon in the sun to celebrate. My 12 week scan is in two weeks and EPAU will see me one more time at 15 weeks before I'm discharged.

I hope you're all having a lovely sunny Saturday. xx

Ahhh @Catconfusion that's just brilliant! I actually can't imagine you're already so close to 12w, where is all this time gone??? It feels like yesterday when you announced you're expecting again. I know it doesn't feel like this to you, especially that you've been so poorly, but from the "outside", I really think it has flown by. It's nearly the end of your first trimester! I do hope second trimester will be a more settled time for you. Also so glad you've managed to get out and about, sounds lovely xxx

Thanks to you and @Kiki061190. As you have probably sensed from my posts, I am sceptical re trying something myself in case it does more harm than good and results in an even longer wait for a living baby. I think, upon conclusion, I will go see my GP once I get a BFP or early next year if still BFN, whichever comes sooner. I'll ask for a prescription of something that might make my luteine phase longer, would that be Clomid and progesterone pessaries? Or just Clomid first and progesterone pessaries only after the BFP?

I think I'd rather be monitored, even if the NHS won't listen to me, I'll go private. I think I'd rather that than risking making a bigger mess myself, accidentally.

Re agnus castus, I was really tempted, but I read on many websites that it might increase the risk of MC if suddenly "dropped" at the point of O as it will lead to a quick drop in progesterone. On the other hand, the recommendation is that it should not be taken in the first trimester (although again, sources very and some swear by taking it until the 12 w scan). Because there is no official research into its use in the first trimester, it is not confirmed to be safe. How frustrating is this?! I advised against the big pharma companies before and the cynic in me cannot help but think that I know why no research had been conducted in this area. But I cannot be certain, and it's my baby at stake.

In the meantime, I'm not testing until Wednesday. I have been feeling very nauseous yesterday and today. At first I thought I was making this up, but no, I've definitely had several waves of nausea in the afternoons and managed to be hungry in the same time and eat straight after which helped a bit. I also have zero signs of PMS, my skin in particular is absolutely glowing - unheard of 4 days before AF is due, I religiously get at least one horrible spot in the middle of my nose or on my chin that I have to fight off for a week or longer, thank God for good foundation, eh!

Now, I'm not building up my hopes here not to get heartbroken next week, but objectively I am feeling and looking different to normal these past two days. Xxx

One final question: which day is supposed to be day 1 of the luteal phase, would it be the day of peak fertility, the day after that, two days after that? That's if using LH strips. If anyone here tracked BBT before, how would you pin point day one of the luteal phase?

All the websites say "from day of ovulation", how does one confirm that day for definite? Xxx

@MrsMGE thank you, do you know what it’s been unpleasant but I’ve felt it’s gone fast. I still have days where I have to pinch myself and remember I am pregnant. It just feels surreal.

I think you’re right to be cautious of anything that might mess with O that’s not prescribed by a doctor. I was taking Agnus Castus until O after my mc and that was when I had the weird cycle with spotting and no O. Can’t be sure if it was related. I definitely think stress was delaying it in my case.

Clomid is taken for a few days at the beginning of the cycle. It stimulates the ovaries to bring O forward. You’d be scanned a week and a bit later to see if follicles are growing nicely and get a prediction for O. There are a small risk I think with Clomid of mc but many women have success with it. My Mum was one of the first ladies in 70s to take it and it worked first time then she had my sister. I was natural. There is another drug that works in a similar way but I can’t think of the name. They might give you the progesterone from ovulation if they suspect it’s low. I really hope it doesn’t come to this and you get good news when you test. The nausea is a good sign. Fingers crossed for you! Xx

@MrsMGE I counted the day after O as day 1

Thanks @Catconfusion, so did I. That makes the LP 9 days long if we assume a 35 day cycle (i.e. the same length as my last one). I just don't want a repeat of the same story, I had a 9 day LP when I got pregnant the first time (even though I wasn't tracking, I know when we dtd and I'm pretty certain of that as otherwise my LP would have been extremely long, impossible). I then had few instances of brien spotting, not major, the midwife dismissed it as normal and I didn't go to the EPAU as a result. I don't want to go to the land of "what ifs", but I definitely don't want a repeat of the same story in case if these symptoms were indeed signs of low progesterone. So I'll do what I can to minimise this risk next time.

Absolutely understandable @MrsMGE I’m presuming they won’t do a Gynae referral to look at the short LP and possibly low progesterone. I just hate that we have to figure these things out on our own. Xx

@Catconfusion I don't know if they'd refer me, thing is, even if they did, it would probably take a while to be seen. Can progesterone and Clomid be prescribed by a GP?

You can probably get progesterone but the gp can’t prescribe Clomid. Usually it’s the fertility clinic. Not sure if the Gynae clinic could. I would definitely discuss your concerns with the GP. If they’re being rubbish find a new GP.

@MrsMGE You know I’m measuring about 4 days behind from what my LMP would say I was, which means I ovulated around day 18 making my LP 10 days that month. I got a BFP cycle day 25 so technically 8DPO! They said all measurements are sort of unreliable just now until my 12 week scan but honestly I wouldn’t worry just now about you let LP. This is you just starting to TTC again and you fell quite quick last time. I think it’ll happen for you again before you need to consider any private care. It’s so hard though because your mind can be full of what ifs, I was like that but when I went to my booking app they literally said chances of it happening again are so slim and most women have a mc at some point. They were just so adamant I should be positive.

Hey ladies how are you?! Sorry I've been away for a bit, we have guests over and it's very hectic day to day 🙄 They're here until mid-week.

So I did do a test this morning, unfortunately BFN! I'll be honest I didn't think this was my month anyway and I didn't feel a thing during this luteal phase so was not hopeful. I should get my period today but I don't feel that either which makes it a bit strange (usually I get bad cramps and PMS a day before and same day). I'm 10 DPO currently. I wonder if it's the progesterone pessaries that will help lengthen my luteal phase? 🤔

Anyway, it's our 1 year wedding anniversary today so we're out for this amazing Italian meal! Can't wait 🥰 And can't wait to have some 🍷

@MrsMGE I wouldn't start worrying about your LP just yet, I had a LP or 8-9 days and fell. The pessaries are just precaution, but I've been for scans where they say that my lining looks really good. How's your TWW going? I'm glad to hear you're so relaxed 😄 and I'm really crossing all fingers and toes for you! ❤️

@Catconfusion amazing news about the scan!!! Not long now until the magical 12 week scan?! And hopefully by 2nd trimester you'll feel better poor you!

@Kiki061190 are you feeling better? ❤️ I'm so happy to hear about your scan, how scary!!! It sounds like you handled it like a champ for sure, it must have been such a good feeling seeing the bean! So you're measuring bang on? X when's the next scan?

Aww @SunStruck sorry to hear this! But like you said, you have tested early, some women don't get anything at all until 12-13 DPO or later. You need to test again mid-week. In the meantime, enjoy tonight and congratulations on your anniversary ❤️

My TWW is in fact a One-and-a-Half-Week-Wait (aka OHWW) which might be making things easier. I'm very relaxed overall, I'll be testing on Weds. Like I said above, had several "symptoms" and no PMS, but isn't it a lottery, it might mean nothing 🤣 I'm trying not to focus on them and risk my mind going down the route of imagining things. It's easy, isn't it. You might urinate more often, but maybe you simply drank a lot 🤣

I've mapped out a plan of action in the event of a definite BFN, we're going on a fertility diet from today and give it 4 months. Also if a BFP arrives in the meantime, I'm going for progesterone pessaries and baby Aspirin (?) to my GP or private. The plan is there!!! ⚡

Thank you @Kiki061190, you're always so positive ❤️ You're right. I'm trying to think ahead and minimise the risk, you know. I don't want to put my hopes up too much this month, it was full of ups and downs and I just want to stay calm as I am now. The questions I asked is me thinking ahead, what if it still doesn't happen again and again, and also what if it suddenly does. I want to be as prepared as I can be to give the second pregnancy the best possible chance of developing healthily. I think it's quite confusing as luteal phase defect is normally associated with a short cycle. Since mine are within the top range, I do wonder if this is just normal for me. Or maybe I could add an extra day by going on a special diet that might help with balancing the hormones. I'd love it to be in double numbers tbh!

How do you calculate LP if you get a BFP in that cycle? Were you testing every day and worked out it was finished when you got your first BFP? Hmmm I'm wondering now whether I should start testing a bit earlier just in case, it would be useful to know. Weds is 10DPO, would it be sensible to start testing tomorrow?

@Kiki061190 And yes, re measurements, they are a bit off in the first trimester, but I was also a bit behind on my first (good) scan and I knew exactly it matched when we dtd, and suspected then that my O was late in the cycle, so you're right, it won't be off by much, if at all.

@MrsMGE 10 DPO is definitely enough to test with FRER I think, I started a FRER thread and the ladies there got strong positives at 10 DPO! So try tomorrow 😁😁😁😁 I can't wait 🤞

@SunStruck Congratulations on the wedding anniversary! Hope you have a fabulous time with the hubby! ♥️ I am feeling a lot better, less nauseous and managing to eat food now which is good. Scan is 11 days away now so praying for good news! Is his your first cycle proper TTC after mc? My first cycle TTC after I got a BFN and it is so hard seeing a negative test, especially when you just want to be preggers ASAP! I’m measuring about 4 days behind from my LMP but I never ovulate in the middle of my cycle and wasn’t tracking O so sounds about right to me. Will get a due date at my 12 week scan.

@MrsMGE I LOVE a plan! I always have lists of things mapped out that I want to do. I’m intrigued by this diet... what is it like? Low fat/sugar? If you know when you O’d just count your LP from the day after. The 2 cycles I’ve conceived are the cycles I’ve O’d later which is odd. Maybe my egg was getting extra big and ripe those months 😂 so my LP has only been 9-10 days those months. Oddly I got a BFP 8DPO with both as well which is so odd to get one that early. I have no idea what my body is doing 😂 I would stick to 10dpo. @sadtoday21 got hers at 14dpo and @Catconfusion 10dpo. It varies for every person. You’re going to fall soon don’t worry! I know it! ♥️

Thanks @Kiki061190 ! This is the 2nd cycle since mmc we could try! Did you catch on the 2nd cycle?