To comment that anyone wanting to find more about Zelensky - offshore dealings

[SandyStrawToad]

I'm not a bot.

Was just trying to find out a bit more about the situation, build-up of current events beyond the surface information.

Found a lot of information from late last year (leaked Pandora Papers) - of course like all news it's

but he isn't some naïve young actor with a cute architect wife who accidentally fell into politics whilst playing Paddington?

www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle

globalhappenings.com/opinion/15391.html

eutoday.net/news/politics/2021/ukraine-82.3-consider-zelenskys-involvement-in-offshore-activities-unacceptable-poll-shows

Got my flameproof suit on but I just think in terms of information (especially as some Mumsnetters are probably using this forum as a primary source of information) it's useful to try to have a complete picture if you're thinking about how to engage with a situation that you're learning about.

Everyone comes into a situation from a different angle - I'm personally fairly uneasy with backing policies that put myself and people on the breadline at risk, by a multi-millionaire with substantial assets abroad with links to a billionaire who is already sanctioned by the EU and the US (awaits flaming).

(am I the only one who is hunting down a source of "unbiased news" regularly?)

I'm sure the regular media is aware of this and when it suits the narrative/story arc they'll bring it up again.

@SandyStrawToad

www.benarnews.org/english/news/thai/fight-volunteers-03082022151302.html

Clearly motivated people around the globe.

Obviously it's their own personal journey/decision, but I don't know whether or not I'd recommend some young person travels to fight in Ukraine/makes sacrifices and relies on being remunerated/getting decent treatment and managing to cope with the aftermath later on including implications for their own country.

(look at the mixed messages from the British government!)

Thanks for the links. I wonder how many of the people quoted in the article will actually go and volunteer to fight.

I suspect that someone who actually volunteers to fight in another country’s war is not going to be the kind of person who thinks about long-term implications in general!

As to the rest of your argument, you seem to be saying that because Zelensky has some ‘dodgy financial dealings’ (like almost every other politician!), he doesn’t deserve the support of the world against the much larger country that has invaded his country and is killing civilians. You haven’t responded when people have pointed out that other wartime leaders (like Churchill) weren’t perfect either; you haven’t acknowledged that in wartime, Ukrainians might put aside political differences to fight a common enemy; youyou’re just pushing the ‘Zelensky is bad so we shouldn’t support Ukraine’ narrative. Sickening.

@noblegiraffe

but after spending the day reading up on more balanced / nuanced arguments

Why do I get the feeling that these arguments are on the same sort of shitty websites that think the covid vaccine is designed for global depopulation?

You nailed it.

@user43786

I'd like to know what the Ukrainian army were burning from the government intelligence building in Kiev when the Russians started to attack. Instead of helping the people they had time to build a bonfire and carry countless documents outside to be destroyed.

In war it's always the innocent civilians that get off worse but there's something not right about this whole situation in my opinion. What do they have that's so bad they couldn't risk the Russians seeing it so had to destroy it?

Throw in the fact that the Ukraine is in the top 10 of most corrupt countries in the world plus the Biden link and something doesn't add up.

I feel for the Ukrainian people but I don't think they are being told the whole truth about this war either.

Destroying secret documents to avoid them being captured is pretty routine when it looks like you may lose the battle.

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue

Interesting that a common theme of the OP's posts is how we should shut up - we can 'quietly' condemn Putin and help Ukrainian refugees but we mustn't talk about it. We'll only reveal our inferior thinking after all in comparison to the OP's greatly nuanced interpretation of the invasion! Meanwhile they are also extremely keen to impress how utterly insignificant Mumsnet is and how no one would possibly care what's said on such a 'random' website full of silly mums obsessed with parking after all (funny how we get such huge waves of bots intent on sowing disinformation on major issues then when we matter so very little politically, right?).

I realise the Brexit strategy of don't trust the experts, ignore mainstream media, do your own 'research', fling around the phrase 'critical thinking' over and over was very successful but it's pretty recognisable now and its effectiveness gets diluted every time it's wheeled out again and again to sow division and obscure the direction of blame and accountability.

We must bow down to their (plural) superior intelligence, and thank them (plural) for allowing us to read such greatness.

The only aim is to start sprinkling doubt seeds over Zalinksy, and the war itself. Its the same thing that's been happening for at least 8 years, with interference in the 2014 Ukrainian elections, US elections, UK elections possibly, and Brexit. All bankrolled by the Kremlin. Look at the political stability of America, that country hasn't been that polarised and fractured since the Civil war. You can thank Russian bankrolled posters for that, spreading propaganda, and feeding and building conspiracy theories that are pulling people apart to weaken society, so the once "great" superpower, is now a laughing stock.

They look for popular websites, for different demographics, and start spreading the, "isn't it interesting" "I just wanted you to know" "I've just found this out" posts, that try to reframe the view of an event, person, organisation. Fake news is a good example.

And it's always 'something doesn't add up' and 'we aren't being told the whole truth'. It's painfully obvious.

Zalinksy, eh?

@ABitBesotted annnnd there we have it, vaccine weirdness, just like @noblegiraffe predicted. Bet you think we're all NPCs or whatever.

I don't know what an NPC is. But come on, the endless Brexit threads on here morphed in two years of covid-shrieking which has now morphed into wall-to-wall performative giving a fuck about Ukraine. On a site where it has been de rigueur for years to slag off Eastern Europeans.

Look at the Russian propaganda though

Not everyone on this site slags off Eastern Europeans & tbh it's perfectly normal that people are going to talk about what's in the news. I don't think you have to be able to spell Zelenskyy to have a basic moral opinion.

@ABitBesotted

I don't know what an NPC is. But come on, the endless Brexit threads on here morphed in two years of covid-shrieking which has now morphed into wall-to-wall performative giving a fuck about Ukraine. On a site where it has been de rigueur for years to slag off Eastern Europeans.

Maybe Mumsnet isn't for you.

Thanks for the dirt Vlad, but its about the 45 million people in Ukraine, and he's doing a Stirling job

It's not what he did in the past it's what he has done in the past 14 days to protect his people from atrocious war crimes and a despot leader who is hell bent on imperialism.

He is managing the tough st career choice of his life! And he's doing it damned better than most- so give him some slack take your pro Russian agenda back to Siberia!

You might not be a not but you are definitely a toad!

Bot!

This thread needs reporting

Deleting more like

@Littlepaws18

It's not what he did in the past it's what he has done in the past 14 days to protect his people from atrocious war crimes and a despot leader who is hell bent on imperialism.

He is managing the tough st career choice of his life! And he's doing it damned better than most- so give him some slack take your pro Russian agenda back to Siberia!

So if Boris was switched in his place, would you then be willing to forgive Boris , if he was heroic ?

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor

Deleting more like

What happened to civilised debating and freedom of debate , or do you prefer censorship and coverup, and if you do prefer censorship and coverup, then would you agree that you then would be using similar methods that a certain leader would also use ?

@Littlepaws18

Bot!

Freedom of speech and civilised debate, or do you prefer methods of censorship that a certain leader would use ?

I'm against deleting this thread, these discussions need be out in the open where they can be challenged and debated and evidenced, but equally, saying this as a non-British person who has lived in Scotland for 20 years now, it is fucking (and I swear as much as I like, Hawkins001) annoying that every single issue and argument is always met with a "but Boris" or "but the evil TOOOORIIIEES!!!". It's hust shutting down discussions in a different way.

I don't prefer censorship and cover up...I'm just intolerant to this sort of bullshit

It was reported last week Zelensky is in a US Embassy in Poland, and US had contingency plans for him to continue as a leader in exile. Pretty sure Ukraine is the chessboard upon which an east/west battle for domination is playing out. You can already see the BRICS nations lining up, with many more, against the west.

Pity us all, we are just sacrificial pawns, sitting here typing and arguing with each other, while little people die, and starve, and rich men get richer.

@gulliblestravels

It was reported last week Zelensky is in a US Embassy in Poland, and US had contingency plans for him to continue as a leader in exile. Pretty sure Ukraine is the chessboard upon which an east/west battle for domination is playing out. You can already see the BRICS nations lining up, with many more, against the west.

Pity us all, we are just sacrificial pawns, sitting here typing and arguing with each other, while little people die, and starve, and rich men get richer.

What an appropriate username you have

Yes indeed, who was it who reported that Zelensky had fled the country, and why?

Probably the same people who reported that maternity hospital was cleared of patients and staff before Russia bombed it, despite the photos to the contrary.