To comment that anyone wanting to find more about Zelensky - offshore dealings

[SandyStrawToad]

I'm not a bot.

Was just trying to find out a bit more about the situation, build-up of current events beyond the surface information.

Found a lot of information from late last year (leaked Pandora Papers) - of course like all news it's

but he isn't some naïve young actor with a cute architect wife who accidentally fell into politics whilst playing Paddington?

www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle

globalhappenings.com/opinion/15391.html

eutoday.net/news/politics/2021/ukraine-82.3-consider-zelenskys-involvement-in-offshore-activities-unacceptable-poll-shows

Got my flameproof suit on but I just think in terms of information (especially as some Mumsnetters are probably using this forum as a primary source of information) it's useful to try to have a complete picture if you're thinking about how to engage with a situation that you're learning about.

Everyone comes into a situation from a different angle - I'm personally fairly uneasy with backing policies that put myself and people on the breadline at risk, by a multi-millionaire with substantial assets abroad with links to a billionaire who is already sanctioned by the EU and the US (awaits flaming).

(am I the only one who is hunting down a source of "unbiased news" regularly?)

I'm sure the regular media is aware of this and when it suits the narrative/story arc they'll bring it up again.

I get wanting to know more but I was thinking along the lines of history of why Ukraine may have been invaded rather than the character of the president. For example I’ve learned more about 2014, about unrest about Crimea and Donbas and that the president was elected with a majority but then didn’t deliver - all interesting to make me more aware but I don’t see how his financial arrangements are relevant? Aside from just being a bit of context. It doesn’t make the invasion any more justified and isn’t some big secret.

I expect that right now the Ukrainian people really don't give a shit about their president's financial arrangements. And if he manages to get them through this nightmare will think he's earnt every single penny he has stashed away.

I'm interested in the OP's "you can't trust anyone with an above average income" stance. What's the cut-off line? If an MI6 analyst goes part time while her DC are tiny is she suddenly 50% more trustworthy?

Of course there's only one player in this story with literal billions in assets acquired through no lawfully explicable means. And it's not Zelenskyy, Johnson or Biden.

@Yants

This thread clearly highlights that, for the most part, what a nation of low information, unthinking, naive, reactionary idiots we've become... utterly incapable of accepting nuances or carrying out independent research or formulating opinions based on facts.

Instead just slavishly complying with whatever narrative our State controlled broadcaster and media spoon feed us.

So what are the facts that will change the essential understanding that Putin has invaded Ukraine, that Ukraine doesn’t want to be invaded and is resisting, that millions of people are leaving the country, people are being killed, including civilians, and cities destroyed?

We do agree that those are facts, yes? Or has your ‘research’ cast doubt on that?

I've just done some "research" and learned that Zelenskyy is a puppet under the control
Of the New World Order. Stands to reason, he's literally an actor

Is he a lizard and does he inject himself with the blood of children though? 🤔 😄😄😄

You appear to be suggesting that because Zelensky is rich, his country should be invaded and he shouldnt be allowed to defend it, and thats that.

Are you british op? Because many of our politicians are corrupt. So if we get invaded its fine for us to be killed or taken over on that basis.

What a very wierd world view, to try to decide on the fate of a nation and whether it should defend itself based on the actions of one man. You appear to be confused, ukraine is a democracy, therefore their fate isnt decided by one man alone. If you are trying to pin the actions of a nation one one man I suggest you look to Russia, you know the country led by a dictator....

The OP must have accepted another cyber mission. Perhaps they're over on netmums trying to persuade them that Zelenskyy eats kittens for lunch and is paid by Biden to sniff people's hair 😄

2 points:

1. There's no sign what he did was illegal.
2. he could have left the country and safely run the war in the comfort of a nato safe place. He stayed to fight and lead.

Yes, He stood against offshoring wealth in opaque vehicles but there are signs he had at one time held wealth offshore wealth and then got rid of them before running for election, whilst possibly still enabling his family to benefit.

No ideal but pretty much what Sunak and many others do.

His actions in this war show me what I need about how fit for office he is.

Maybe Zelensky isn’t a saint and at any other time his business dealings may warrant closer scrutiny but the current situation means that all of that is completely irrelevant at the moment
And saying you aren’t a bot doesn’t mean a thing

And last night boris Johnson got his party to vote through a loophole to protect the Russian oligarch's. Gave them 6 months to sell and hide assets and then a loophole to excempt individuals.

Basically a giant advert - 'big enough donation will get you protection'.

That's fucking corruption for you.

Great stuff, OP. Now tell us about Putin's finances.

I am a big fan of nuance. However, posting things which are either irrelevant (as here) or unevidenced under the banner of nuance is going to make people suspect you have an agenda- maybe a bot, maybe just a useful idiot from Stop the War or similar.

@ABitBesotted

Here's an example of a story that I don't believe the BBC has touched (for political reasons). I am happy to be corrected if wrong.

Bangladesh were one of 35 countries which abstained from the Russia condemnation vote. As a result, and a particularly murderous and unpleasant bit of virtue signalling, Lithuania announced it was cancelling a donation of over 400,000 covid vaccines it had promised to Bangladesh.

You can argue about whether that's justified or not, but you need to have heard the report in the first place to be able to.

www.dhakatribune.com/foreign-affairs/2022/03/07/lithuania-cancels-decision-to-donate-covid-vaccines-to-bangladesh-after-un-vote-on-russia

scroll.in/latest/1019066/lithuania-cancels-vaccine-donations-to-bangladesh-for-not-condemning-russian-invasion-of-ukraine

www.newsweek.com/vaccine-delivery-canceled-country-that-did-not-condemn-russia-1685561

Of course, you may believe that only rich, white Switzerland should enjoy the luxury of neutrality, and tinpot little African and Asian countries should align themselves with the West or else. But at least report on it.

It also hasn’t been reported in other UK media - I’ve quickly checked The Telegraph, The Times, The Express, the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Mirror this morning, and can’t see it on any of their websites.

So it’s not just the BBC not reporting it, as you imply.

I don't think anyone on this thread has said it's good for Switzerland to be neutral, @abitbesotted.

@hassletassle Fundamentally it's about muddying the waters so people feel guilt tripped into being unable to recognise that one country has invaded another.

I don't know why the OP is getting such a hard time. At no point did she say she supports the war or Putin.
I'm Eastern European, the geopolitics of that part are the world are extremely complicated and historically very bloody. Many of the people screaming for the west/NATO to get involved couldn't even point out Ukraine on a map two weeks ago, or were fully aware of how western involvement in Eastern Europe in the past has made situations worse and made it hell for the ordinary people living there. I think that's what the OP is getting at, that it's always ordinary people who suffer.
For the record, I think what Russia is doing to Ukraine is horrific. I admire Zelensky and how he has stayed behind to defend his country. I still think if his pleas for a no fly zone were granted, it would make the situations so much worse. I still think people should read widely, beyond the current narratives.

@ChocolateDigestivesMmmm

I don't know why the OP is getting such a hard time. At no point did she say she supports the war or Putin. I'm Eastern European, the geopolitics of that part are the world are extremely complicated and historically very bloody. Many of the people screaming for the west/NATO to get involved couldn't even point out Ukraine on a map two weeks ago, or were fully aware of how western involvement in Eastern Europe in the past has made situations worse and made it hell for the ordinary people living there. I think that's what the OP is getting at, that it's always ordinary people who suffer. For the record, I think what Russia is doing to Ukraine is horrific. I admire Zelensky and how he has stayed behind to defend his country. I still think if his pleas for a no fly zone were granted, it would make the situations so much worse. I still think people should read widely, beyond the current narratives.

They're in the middle of an invasion and yet the OP is more concerned about the President's financial affairs than the tanks bearing down on his people. This thread seems like just the sort of deflection designed to sow doubt and discord amongst Ukrainians. So yes, I'm suspicious about the OP's motives.

I will join @Yants in urging people not to be reactionary.

Many governments will talk the talk but when it comes to action? Germany didn't want to implement a Swift ban. Italy wanted to continue trading luxury goods. Belgium wanted to keep selling diamonds to Russia.

Meanwhile the US has quietly gone begging to Iran and Venezuela for oil. Countries they have imposed strict santions on. The same Venezuela whose leader Maduro tweeted support for Putin when the tanks rolled in to Ukraine. When faced with economic collapse, morals and doing the "right thing" fly out the window.

Our own Government is using vengeful and reactionary language to satisfy Boris' war hero fantasy. But the ultimate hit will be on ordinary people like dead Ukrainians/Russians and to a lesser extent, you and me behind keyboards in provincial British towns.

As an individual citizen, condemn Putin all you want. Quietly help the refugees with money or donations or a place to stay. But don't buy into all this jingoism. Us vs Them. Good wins over Evil yada yada.

Nice to read about in epic poems. In 2022 geo-politics? Not so much

*It also hasn’t been reported in other UK media - I’ve quickly checked The Telegraph, The Times, The Express, the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Mirror this morning, and can’t see it on any of their websites.

So it’s not just the BBC not reporting it, as you imply.*

Nope, not my implication. My point is you are never going to learn much if you follow and trust only the UK media.

I think it's flat out evil what Lithuania have done. We have many Bangladeshis here so why isn't this reported?

"pucelleauxblanchesmains

@hassletassle Fundamentally it's about muddying the waters so people feel guilt tripped into being unable to recognise that one country has invaded another."

Bang on. All this "both sides" is bullshit

@ChocolateDigestivesMmmm

I don't know why the OP is getting such a hard time. At no point did she say she supports the war or Putin. I'm Eastern European, the geopolitics of that part are the world are extremely complicated and historically very bloody. Many of the people screaming for the west/NATO to get involved couldn't even point out Ukraine on a map two weeks ago, or were fully aware of how western involvement in Eastern Europe in the past has made situations worse and made it hell for the ordinary people living there. I think that's what the OP is getting at, that it's always ordinary people who suffer. For the record, I think what Russia is doing to Ukraine is horrific. I admire Zelensky and how he has stayed behind to defend his country. I still think if his pleas for a no fly zone were granted, it would make the situations so much worse. I still think people should read widely, beyond the current narratives.

'But her emails'

Thats the problem.

Its people who suddenly 'research' crap and present it as a 'gotcha' or a way to undermine, without considering the agenda of the source and whether it is really the concern / priority now.

Some people are well aware of the grey on this, but also see a clear and present danger that Totalitarism presents to us all, which goes WAY beyond democratic levels of corruption and fuckwittery.

I honestly don't like the way our country is run or its leaders. But trust me I'd rather (metophorically) be in bed with Johnson than Putin. (Yep I'm going to deliberately make you all want to bleach your brains again).

@spacehardware

"pucelleauxblanchesmains

@hassletassle Fundamentally it's about muddying the waters so people feel guilt tripped into being unable to recognise that one country has invaded another."

Bang on. All this "both sides" is bullshit

100% this.

@DdraigGoch No one really knows what anyone's motivations are online. It's an emotional and scary time, but ordinary people will pay the price of decisions made by wealthy politicians, yes, even admirable Zelensky. One wrong move and even more people will die. The accounts thing is by the by, the way I understood the OP was that we shouldn't fall for the Star Wars-esque good vs evil narrative, as that isn't how real life works. That's what I understood by "nuance".

"the OP was that we shouldn't fall for the Star Wars-esque good vs evil narrative, as that isn't how real life works. That's what I understood by "nuance"."

Putin seized Crimea in 2014; his agenda is expansionist and aggressive and basically he wants the USSR back

Do not be fooled into thinking he has any intention of stopping with Ukraine. NATO will ultimately either have to engage with Russia militarily, or accept that the principles underlying nato as now bullshit, and will not engage no matter what he does.

Nope, not my implication. My point is you are never going to learn much if you follow and trust only the UK media

You should probably have said that then, if that was your point, shouldn't you? But you didn't, and now you're saying it because your post was identified as predictable 'biased BBC' stuff.

[quote ChocolateDigestivesMmmm]@DdraigGoch No one really knows what anyone's motivations are online. It's an emotional and scary time, but ordinary people will pay the price of decisions made by wealthy politicians, yes, even admirable Zelensky. One wrong move and even more people will die. The accounts thing is by the by, the way I understood the OP was that we shouldn't fall for the Star Wars-esque good vs evil narrative, as that isn't how real life works. That's what I understood by "nuance". [/quote]
It's a mistake though to assume people saying 'it's more complicated than that', is itself a nuanced debate. It really isn't. OP has provided nothing beyond that and a hint that she is unhappy about the knock-on cost of war to her personal finances.