MSbP, Lost Mothers 4

[Bunglie]

I thought it was about time we had a new thread...I felt it might be better to keep the same thread name, but I want to make it clear that it is for ALL mothers who have been seperated or lost children for what ever reason. You do not have to be accused of anything to post here, we would also be grateful if anyone comes across any articles and could just post a link to them here, so we can keep up with the news! I myself seem to miss it all, and if it were not for Mnetters posting links I would still be 'in the dark' about a lot of things. So Thankyou to all of those who have supported us.

I myself feel very privilidged to be part of such a wonderful group of mums, who have shown me nothing but support. It is 10 months ago that I first 'stumbled' across Mnet. I come here when I feel down, or need cheering up, for help and advice. I know of 5 mums who have posted on this thread due to 'false accusations' but I also am aware that there are some mums out there who read it for support and information but do not feel able to post, due to the 'gagging orders' they have placed on them.

I chose a story at 'random' but asked the person who posted it if I can repeat it here,and I feel that it highlights what so many mother's have gone through.

I would hate to think that we are a 'clique' in the world of Mumsnet because we rely on all of the mumsnetters for their help and because of that I hope that no one feels excluded from posting and that you will continue to help us as you have done in the past.

Love Bunglie XX

Bunglie - i didnt see this yesterday but Happy Birthday to your someone very special xx

I think it was Yesterday we were having a discussion about the 'gagging order' and who I am allowed to speak to etc. Well I think this is one for any legal eagles to 'translate' for me but it arrived in the post today.
For reasons I am sure you will understand I can not give you all the details however this is part of a letter I got from the GMC.

"............Disclosure of information heard in the family court cases involving children is subject to a wide-ranging restrictions, and the GMC requires permission from the court to obtain and consider information relating to such cases under own Fitness to Practice procedures. I have therefore asked our legal team to apply for an ex-parte order for disclosure of the documents in the proceedings......."

So as you can see not even the GMC can see what a doctor has said in the court without the Judges permission!

Please do not ask me any further questions relating to this as I can not say, but those of you who understand it can probably guess!

Sobeit- wanted I wanted to say in my earlier posting but do not think that I put it very well is please do not do yourself down. You have done a lot yourself to help promote public awareness and especially at the moment with your dd waiting to give you a grand-child at any moment. Your life must be very busy and I appreciate it very much that you, and others have found the time to write to their MP's or watch the MAMA DVD. If it were not for the support of ordinary mums like the mums on mumsnet then I doubt I would have coped and I certainly would not have dared to have told my story without your support. So thank you all again.

I will be away from my computer until tomorrow so I hope she does not give birth until then !!

See you all tomorrow, love Bunglie XX

Bunglie - thanks for posting (sorry for delay on night shifts again, last night and tonight). NO her name isnt Claire Gibson.

I hear what you are saying regarding repacussions which is why i hadnt disclosed names or locations. That is why I havent yet told my story and porbably never will, the fear of losing ds all over again is a risk that i dont think i can take, although i think that may change when ds is an adult.

Ladies does anyone read Closer mag?

There's an interview with Angela Cannings in the latest edition.

FYI x

Is that this weeks Mag?
Can I get it online or do I have to buy a copy?
Can you tell me a bit more about the article before I go rushing down and order it from the Newsagents???

MANY thanks LouBeeLou for the information.

Did we know before that Roy Meadow got £8000 for his evidence against Angela Cannings?

I think he should have to pay back all his expert-witness fees.

Agree with you Janh, that makes me really . The article says it all. He was paid and yet the Cannings family not only had to cope with the death of their two sons but she was seperated and imprisoned for life. They then lost everything, house, jobs and two years of family life and he gets paid!

I know when he gave evidence against me he was put -up in a London Hotel, not a cheap one either and had all his expenses paid and then on top of that he got his 'Expert Witness' fee. When you think how many hearings, trials he testified in, he must have made more money doing that than working for the NHS. You have to remember that he charged something like £120 for a 1 page preliminary report, without even seeing the parents or speaking to their doctors or reading medical notes. I feel that it is very unfair and I hope that the GMC fine him. Can they fine a person as part of the punishment? That money should then go to his 'victims' like the Cannings.

It almost makes it worth 'making up a Syndrome' and as it is new and the hearings held in secret etc, who is there to critisize you or stop you. He had quite a regular source of income from this 'scam' of his.

I stress that this is my personal opinion and so should he decide to sue me for 'defamation of Character' it has nothing to do with Mnet etc. But.... at least I may get to finally speak to him after he destroyed my life.

Thanks for that link Janh.

I hope you are not overworking Awen, and that your shifts work out alright for when you have your ds. You must be really excited, I would be. Does the hospital have a creche you can use?
I am really excited for you. You will probably not have time to post while you are together, but if you do have a chance please do let us know how things are going? I am so very happy for you.

Sobeit....the suspense is t6oo much, any news yet????

Hi Bunglie and everyone else affected here,

I've been following this thread for a while now and keep meaning to post but always feeling that I've nothing I can say which can do justice to this subject or the injustice which has been served upon many innocent parents worldwide.
I became interested in this subject after reading about the case of Mary-Beth Tinning in the early 1990s. It seems that MSbP (or whatever they call it these days) came to prominence then. Even in Mary Beth's case there were a few bits of evidence which hinted at possible genetic disease.

I didn't thin k much more than that about this for a few years until I suddenly started noticing a glut of cases coming before the courts and parents (usually the mother) getting life sentences for "murder" of their babies and hearing MSbP being bandied about much more.
I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. Having worked for a long time in the NHS I was always taught that women who killed babies were rare and those that did were almost certainly sick enough to warrent medical treatment rather than the judicial approach. What had changed I wondered? Sadly, I have never been able to get a clear answer from the various child protection people I work with (I'm a HV)- except "more evidence".

Dreadfully, this " more evidence" appears to be Prof. Meadow's skewed approach to looking at statistics. Just how was this flawed analysis left un-noticed for so long.
I can't do justice in this post to what I feel about that. While I think that there are cases where mothers kill their children - I feel that the number involved are extremely rare - and even those women don't belong in prison.

Even worse is the number of people affected by serious and misplaced allegations of harm against their children. It actually makes you wary of acting correctly and seeking help when your child is injured - no parent should have to feel this way and yet, I bet nearly everyone reading this thread will now have that worry at the back of their mind in future - what a truely dreadful situation.

Would be very interested in seeing this DVD.

Mandy

Amanda, email me with your postal address (holden_jan at hotmail dot com) and I will add you to my MAMA DVD waiting list!

Alan Williams (Sally Clark "expert witness" pathologist) in front of GMC today .

Bunglie I can scan and email you the article, or post it if you like.

I will check with DP tonight that he hasn't binned it.

Heard about this on the news today. Will be interested to see what the outcome is.

Hi Bunglie

Found the article - CAT me with an address if you like and I'll post you the mag.

LBLx

Hi, Amanda, Janh and LoubeeLou, and all, sorry but been off line for a couple of days with a 'bug' but I feel better now and 'fighting' fit, however it will take me a while to catch up on what has been happening!

Yes please LouBeeLou, if it is possible to scan I would love to see a copy of the article.

It is amazing I take a couple of days off and everything happens!!

I hope you are all well and when I have caught up I shall be back......

Any news yet Sobeit??????

LobeeLou, I will ask Janh to CAT you if that is OK and if you could send it to her she will forward it.
THANK YOU very much.

No news yet Bunglie - dd is two weeks overdue and went for 2nd scan last week as midwife said baby is too small - but scan showed baby is not too small and all is well. dd still getting contractions and has become huge on tummy. Will let you know as soon as anything happens. All the best sobeit

Sorry to hear you have been poorly, lots of nasty bugs about at the mo.

I'll wait to hear from Jan and pop it in the post for you.

Thanks LouBeeLou. If you can send her your email she will send you her address. Her email is holden_jan@hotmail(dot)com.

She is a Brilliant P.A. but I can't tell her that or she may want a pay rise, (or pay!!). I know she is very busy at the moment but thank you very much again.

Sobeit...Please tell your dd that she has me sitting on the edge of my chair, every time I log on I expect some news!! I think I will have to start think of ways to induce her soon, (only joking, nature knows best). I just hope that her baby is not too big and she has a good labour. My love and best wishes to you both.

Bunglie, I keep telling her to run around the green outside my house ( just joking with her) poor thing, she is so fed up with being big and can't wait to meet her baby... but as you say - nature must take its course. She keeps getting the odd contraction - like all last night and we thought she'd be in hospital by now... dd was two weeks overdue when I had her..so I know how she feels. None of us have slept very well this week.. will let you know asap when baby is here. All the best...sobeit

In tonight's post.

x

A quick note as I have been 'away' for a few days!

Any news yet Sobeit?

I am just trying to catch up with my emails... but if I owe you one it will be coming your way, I am sorry but I caught a 'bug' and then managed to get an infection in my catheter (again-yawn!). So I have found it difficult to sit at the computer.
All I can say is thank goodness for the person who invented cranberry tablets....I really do not like crannyberry juice....yuk!
Just got your email Janh...I will reply however just to let you know I have got a few more MAMA DVD's that can go 'into your wonderful system', for people to borrow. That way people will not have to wait so long. Perhaps I should put a bit of paper in reminding people to watch the 'extra' bits not just the film, as it has a 20 minute (approx) interview with Meadow, and updates on all those who were portrayed in the film. What do you think?

I hope all is well with everyone and I shall be back soon with some news I hope.
Love, Bunglie XX

PS. Thank you LouBeeLou,XX

Oh, Bunglie, great to see you again - I was getting worried!

Did you get my text too?

Awen's wonderful news!

"Doubts raised about Meadow before Cannings case"

By the head of Fitness to Practise for the GMC, no less!

Bunglie - sorry to hear you haven't been well...Hope you feel better real soon.

dd has been into hospital Saturday and again today, she's had another scan and been wired up to a monitor today, they told her she is 39 1/2 weeks and she will need inducing this week if nothing happens naturally - she will know more tomorrow. Will keep you updated.

I am finding it interesting reading all the news posted on here... Still circulating the mama dvd.

All the best - sobeit