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MSbP, Lost Mothers 4

358 replies

Bunglie · 16/10/2004 12:22

I thought it was about time we had a new thread...I felt it might be better to keep the same thread name, but I want to make it clear that it is for ALL mothers who have been seperated or lost children for what ever reason. You do not have to be accused of anything to post here, we would also be grateful if anyone comes across any articles and could just post a link to them here, so we can keep up with the news! I myself seem to miss it all, and if it were not for Mnetters posting links I would still be 'in the dark' about a lot of things. So Thankyou to all of those who have supported us.

I myself feel very privilidged to be part of such a wonderful group of mums, who have shown me nothing but support. It is 10 months ago that I first 'stumbled' across Mnet. I come here when I feel down, or need cheering up, for help and advice. I know of 5 mums who have posted on this thread due to 'false accusations' but I also am aware that there are some mums out there who read it for support and information but do not feel able to post, due to the 'gagging orders' they have placed on them.

I chose a story at 'random' but asked the person who posted it if I can repeat it here,and I feel that it highlights what so many mother's have gone through.

I would hate to think that we are a 'clique' in the world of Mumsnet because we rely on all of the mumsnetters for their help and because of that I hope that no one feels excluded from posting and that you will continue to help us as you have done in the past.

Love Bunglie XX

OP posts:
sobeit · 08/02/2005 02:17

Bunglie - I just got back from the hospital after watching my dd give birth to my darling granddaughter - what a wonderful experience - the labour lasted 4 hours and the baby is so beautiful - she weighs 6lb 10 and mother and baby both doing well - I expect dd will sleep very well tonight and I can't wait to visit them both tomorrow. All the best - sobeit

JanH · 08/02/2005 09:00

Congratulations to you all, sobeit!

(Don't suppose you'll have much time to be here now )

sobeit · 14/02/2005 12:00

Hello JanH - I am still going to be keeping an interest in msbp - after finding this site and watching the mama dvd I think it is important the public know what is happening to parents and their children when false allegations are made.
I really feel for the families who have been affected by these professors and so - called experts - I want to see justice done for every parent who has been wronged and every family affected.

Bunglie - I hope you are feeling better - I have been letting parents know about this site and know some of them are reading here - hopefully they will join in the debate - if not - I am sure they are finding the information of great interest and the links you provide useful.

The baby has captured my heart and brought a whole new meaning to my life... Her arrival brings home the very impotance of family and family life.

I look forward to watching the programmes that are being broadcast 22nd and 23rd Februrary re msbp and Angela and Terry Cannings story - I hope it brings the awareness to your campaigning you need and one day - your children back where they belong - with the parents who miss and love them.

All the best - sobeit

LunarSea · 17/02/2005 10:31

Found these 2 items in this week's Sunday Mercury:

======

They were desperate

A MIDLAND couple whose baby daughter was taken into care by social services have snatched her back again - and fled to Bangladesh. Friends of Mumtaz and Dilda Ali say that they were heartbroken after being branded potential baby-killers and took a desperate route out.

Their three year-old daughter, Carma, had been put up for adoption after a lengthy High Court battle last year.

Experts claimed that Mumtaz, 21, showed symptoms of Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy (MSBP) and posed an 'extreme risk' to her child.

Doctors said she had tried to smother Carma at least four times, but Mumtaz and Dilda insisted their daughter suffered from breathing problems which run in both their families.

In December the parents, from Hockley in Birmingham, lost a final appeal to win Carma back and all hope seemed to have been lost.

But in a shocking twist, they discovered where the little girl was being cared for by foster parents and launched a dramatic mission to abduct her.

Just three days later they fled Britain and are now believed to be hiding in a remote part of Bangladesh with relatives.

Last night, a source said: 'This is a huge own-goal for social services. There are massive question marks over how the parents managed to track down the fostering address before abducting Carma.

'Then there is the issue over how they managed to leave the country three days later, when all ports and airports should have been on full alert.

'Someone, somewhere, has made a major blunder and it wouldbeamazing if therewasnot a full inquiry into how this has happened.'

Mumtaz and Dilda's story began in 2001, when Carma was born. Former double-glazing salesman Dilda, now 23, married Mumtaz after their daughter's birth, causing a family rift.

But within months, Carma developed breathing problems and was rushed to hospital four times in just three months.

Her symptoms included shortness of breath, sweating and vomiting.

Doctors took Carma in for observation, but Mumtaz and Dilda were stunned when they were told they were under investigation.

Paediatricians alleged that Mumtaz was suffering from MSBP - a condition first diagnosed by discredited child-death expert Professor Sir RoyMeadow. Parents affected by the syndrome are said to fabricate their child's illness, resulting in unnecessary hospital admissions or even deaths.

Yet neither Mumtaz nor her husband were ever quizzed by police about the treatment of their daughter.

Theyhave pointed to a history of breathing problems in their family, which has resulted in an astonishing 24 infant deaths in four generations.

But despite a compelling dossier of evidence, Mumtaz and Dilda failed to stop Carma being taken into care.

They launched a court fight to win her back, but the last of their appeals was turned down at a High Court hearing last December.

A source close to the family told the Mercury: 'Mumtaz and Dilda were desperate to get their baby back and they have taken the extreme option to do just that.

'They had been attacked by a system which gave them no chance of a fair hearing and they were at their wits' end.

'We've heard they found out where Carma was and went there to get her back on the evening of December 27.

'There is a suggestion that the foster parents were restrained in somewaywhileCarmawas taken. 'Mumtaz and Dilda are then thought to have left the country three days later. How they did that we don't know, but they have been out of contact since then.

'We think they have gone to Bangladesh, where their family comes from originally.

'It is a terrible situation and it cannot be right. But this is what happens in a country where the courts deliberately split families apart in an unjust way.'

In her last interview, given to the Sunday Mercury in March,2003, Mumtaz told of her heartbreak at losing her daughter.

'All I ever wanted was to have Carma back in my life,' she said. 'It is the most painful feeling you can imagine - the lack of hope. We have come so far and all along I have said that I never, ever, tried to kill my baby.'

A West Midlands Police spokesman said: 'Police and Birmingham City Council Social Services Department, the child's legal guardians, are concerned for her welfare and safety and want to appeal for her return.

'It is thought she may be with her natural parents, who have no legal rights to have the child, and they may have left the country. There is an ongoing police investigation to try to find the girl and her family.'

Birmingham City Council refused to comment.

The names of the couple and child have been changed for legal reasons.

Mum may have second child taken away

A MOTHER branded a child killer by social services but never charged with any offence is facing the heartbreak of having a second baby taken from her.

Karen Haynes and her husband Mark have been monitored in a specialist security unit by social workers and medics since she gave birth to their daughter, Amy, six months ago.

Their first child, Emma, was taken from them under a child protection order just 20 minutes after being born in 2000 and has since been adopted, denying them all access.

Social workers had suspected that Karen, 36, had killed her firstborn child, Michael, yet she has never been arrested or charged with any offence.

Now the Haynes - who believe their son's death was linked to a controversial drug he was prescribed - face a family court hearing on February 25 to see if their new baby will be taken from them, too.

A family friend said: 'They have spent the last six months bonding with their baby at the unit to prove they are good parents. I don't know what it will do to them if she is taken away from them.

'Karen has never been prosecuted for the death of Michael, so how dare social services make these assumptions against her without any proof?

'If she had been convicted and jailed shewould probably be out by now and have been re-united with Emma. Instead, it is as though she is serving a sentence, anyway.'

She added: 'Karen and Mark agreed to move into the security unit with Amy, where they are monitored 24/7. They have had to move out of their family home. They have done everything asked of them by social services.'

Birmingham MP Sion Smith is supporting Karen and Mark's fight to keep Amy.

'What this couple have been through is indefensible,' he said. 'The secrecy surrounding these cases under the veil of the family courts is outrageous.

'I am trying to set up a meeting with the head of Birmingham council to sort this out. I completely support the couple's bid to keep their child.'

Penny Mellor, a Wolverhampton campaigner for parents wrongly accused of harming their children, said: 'I am horrified that yet again it would appear social services are failing in their duty to care for a child.

'If they really cared about families and children, they would get to the truth of Michael's death.'

Speaking about her unplanned pregnancy to the Sunday Mercury last year, Karen said: 'We are over the moon but very nervous because of what happened before.'

Medical experts, including the discredited Professor Roy Meadow, investigated the death of baby Michael, who died at four months old in 1999.

Before his death he had been prescribed Cisapride, a drug linked to 136 deaths worldwide and which has since been withdrawn from sale in the UK.

Despite social services suspicions that Karen was involved in the death of Michael, she has never faced a criminal prosecution. The couple are still awaiting a full inquest into Michael's death.

The names of the couple and their children have been changed for legal reasons.

=====
Also a reminder that "Cherished" (the BBC drama based on the Angela Cannings story) will be screened 9pm next Tuesday (February 22).

MummytoSteven · 26/02/2005 20:16

hi everyone. just wondered if anyone knew if Bunglie is OK, as she doesn't seem to have posted here for a few weeks?

MummytoSteven · 27/02/2005 19:19

bump

soapbox · 27/02/2005 19:33

I am getting very worried about her too

I know she often spends spells in hospital but she's never been away this long before!

Yurtgirl · 27/02/2005 19:55

Message withdrawn

WigWamBam · 28/02/2005 00:32

One or two of us have emailed her and had no reply - I know she had a catheter infection, and I assume that she's had to go back into hospital with it.

jampots · 28/02/2005 00:39

i was wondering too - hope she's ok. Isnt jan in regular touch with her?

WigWamBam · 28/02/2005 00:44

JanH wrote to her last week because she hadn't been able to reach her on her mobile.

Bunglie · 03/03/2005 16:58

Firstly CONGRATULATIONS Sobeit and your DD. Wow! a Grandaughter! The labour sounded quite fast and she is a wonderful weight. I hope that both mum and baby are doing well and that mum is getting lots of rest at this stage and that baby is doing what babies do best, feed and sleep! Do you have any ideas for names?

Awen- Your news is just wonderful. Please make certain that you have all the assistance that they want you to have as this will help 'cover' you and although I am sure you are quite capable you want to let them realise this and then you will be left in peace and have 'normal' lives and have time now to fill in the gap in your relationship. Have you worked out child care for while you are at uni? Please do not underestimate the amount of energy that a ds is going to take in the form of your attention. If necessary I would sugest that you defer a year of your degree to give the two of you a chance to get to know each other again and get into a routine. I am certain that things will go well and you will manage and I am really very happy for you. I would hate anything to go wrong or to be misunderstood so if they offer you help at this stage accept it although I do not think you need it, you just need time together to get to know each other properly again. I am so happy for you and as I said I am confident in your abilities so if they want to check up let them, because I am sure he is and will be a very well adjusted and much loved child. I am just so happy for you, well done you deserve it. If you want anything then shout and we will come up with it, a lot of people care about you so my love to you and your ds. XX

I have a lot of catching up to do and I had someone vide of the Angela Cannings programme for me as I was in hospital, so I am sure I will have something to post once I have watched it but I would be interested to know what the rest of you thought?

Take care and thank you all again for the concern you have shown. It really does mean a lot to me to know that someone cares about my welfare and I do not have to feel guilty for being ill.
I will continue catching up, but I will try and stay out of the hospital!
Love Bunglie XX

OP posts:
dinosaur · 03/03/2005 17:15

Hello Bunglie! That's quite spooky - I was just wondering about you this morning!

sobeit · 04/03/2005 12:01

Hello Bunglie - it's good to see you back. Granddaughter is so lovely - dd doing well - I am so proud of her, she is only 19 and breast feeding the baby - she's a lovely mum.

Loaned out MAMA DVD to a group of mums at our women's night and waiting to hear back from them - quite a few people have seen it now and I'm glad to say it is always discussed at our group meetings.

I watched the Angela and Terry Cannings story, very good programme, but did not point out much about Meadows and Southall and their crimes.
I can understand the Cannings made the story for their dd and to record what happened to them - which was harrowing to watch. There was also a programme showed the day after, but I missed it!

sobeit

Potty1 · 06/03/2005 10:16

Just popping in here today to send all Lost Mothers special wishes for Mothers Day.

Thinking of you X

Good to see you back Bunglie.

MamaMaiasaura · 07/03/2005 00:10

Bunglie so good to hear from you and that you are out of hospital.

Yes, news is wonderful and all seems a bit unreal. Havent had an opportunity to get online properly as life has been pretty busy of late.

Ds is doing really well and everything appears to be moving on steadily.

I feel so blessed and lucky to have this opportunity though. There have been times when i would never have believed it would ever get any easier. I know all lost mums on here would know what i mean by that.

I am sorry for not posting and keeping you updated as well. As well as feeling elated and cautious, I want/hope that my experiences can be a source of hope and strength for any mother in a similar situation. I am humbled by the fact I am not alone too. I dont know if that makes sense.

Love and best wishes to you all. xxx

LunarSea · 08/03/2005 10:42

Bunglie - a few news items which might be of interest to you - from the Telegraph last week

Also, moves to reduce the secrecy of the family courts , and the Southall case decision deferred

InnKogNeeToe · 09/03/2005 05:03

Still haven't learnt how to do the link thingy-ma'jigs hahaha, still this article is worth a read for all those intrested in issues surounding wrong accusations of MSBP.

Take care and be safe all

www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2005-03-03/news/feature_1.html

Bunglie · 09/03/2005 15:10

I hope that you all managed to get through Mother's Day. I personally find it rather hard and tend to curl up in bed for the day and watch slushy films like 'gone with the wind' and 'Little Women' all followed by something along the lines of 'National Velvet'. As you can imagine I need the aloe vera tissues from where my nose has got so red from crying.
I think yhat the greatest thing that you can do is to forgive someone for a wrong that they have done you, but I am sorry to say I can not forgive them for taking my children. The years do not get better, maybe they get easier to cope with but nothing makes up for having your children removed when you yourself know that you have and still are being falsely accaused of something that you did not do. If it is a crime to love your children to the point that it hurts everytime you think of them then I have done something wrong, but I do not know what or how to put it right.
I wish all mothers a Wonderful day and I hope that they were all spoilt rotten. I know that one day I will tell my children the truth and that is the only thing that I can give them at the moment. To expect me to lie about why they took away my children is almost as bad as the people who invented the factitious syndrome and have destroyed so many familiies. I like many will not be able to celebrate until the day my children come home to me voluntarily and I am given a chance to tell them the truth.
I hope that my dispair this year does not lead others to feel sad also. We all cope in different ways at different times in their lives. So I hope you all had a good mother's day and for those mothers still seperated like myself, I hope that it will not be long before we too can celebrate.
With love from a Bunglie who is feeling a bit 'icky' due to drowning her sorrows in Ben and Jerries Cookie dough flavour......

OP posts:
Beetroot · 09/03/2005 15:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Potty1 · 09/03/2005 15:19

((((Bunglie))))

MamaMaiasaura · 18/03/2005 14:42

Hi there Bunglie Hope you are ok.. havent seen you around for a while. x x

LunarSea · 21/04/2005 16:40

I don't know if you'll see this Bunglie - but there was a piece in yesterdays Telegraph which suggests that family court cases where children have been adopted on the basis of discredited evidence could be reinvestigated.

Bunglie · 25/05/2005 17:23

Hi,this is Bunglie
Thank you ALL so much for your cards, pesents and good wishes, they have ment alot to me and kept me going. I am using someones computer from my hospital bed, but I am finding it quite hard to type.
I have a sub acute degeneration of the spinal of the spinal cord, I am paralysed from my breasts down. They do not know yet if it is going to get better so I have to wait here on my bed
I am very bored and miss trying to have contact with my ds. I feel like a sack of potatoes as the turn me andf move me about, but I have poisitive thinking and I am sure that I will get better. All of your cards and goodwishes really have helped me and I miss you all, THANK YOU.

I have to stop now as they will come and feed me my tea in a minute. It has been lovely posying this message and I do hope that all is well in Mumsnet land and I love you all. I wiill try and log on again tomorow afternoon and I ccan tel you the news about my ds and dd.

Bye for now XXXX

OP posts:
MarsLady · 25/05/2005 17:35

good to hear from you bunglie. Will check in tomorrow to hear your news!