Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

77% of the British Mandate, all of which was to be the re-established Jewish home-land, was already made into a Palestinian Arab Muslim country -- Jordan.

"Palestine" is simply the name for a geographic area (Judea / Israel). Most Palestinian Arabs arrived in Palestine within the past 100 years as migrant workers, attracted by increased economic opportunities. A few decades ago, the majority of them called themselves Jordanians or Egyptians.

Tragically, they have been used as pawns by other Arab countries that want to destroy Israel. They have been refused citizenship in their countries of origin, not alowed citizenship in any Arab countries even if they live there, and are denied decent housing and jobs in Arab countries.

If we care about Palestinian Arabs, we MUST support their right to live decent lives in their countries of origin.

JDL1 - you want to "destroy Islam" ?

The clue's in the name. So bombing kids and civilians, strapping kids to the front of an IDF Jeep, imprisoning people (including kids) indefinitely without charge, flattening homes, factories, schools, mosques, farms, power stations etc etc is all OK then? Cos you want to a meeting where someone gave you a map that says all Palestinians are really Jordanian or Egyptian!!!

"If we care about Palestinian Arabs"... The disgusting racist " destroy Islam" image you posted belies the pretence.

All "nakba deniers" should listen to amnon neumann : m.YouTube.com/watch?v=KS4OXOom_vk and have a bit of respect: the time will come soon enough that you are old enough to reflect on your own wrongdoings.

seriously? we have people joining just to incite hatred now? destroy islam? oh my word.

and these are the sane voices that are supposed to prove to us that israel isn't a racist, apartheid system hell bent on ethnically cleansing an entire people?

just wow.

and concheet or whatever his/her name is who has already been deleted for racial hatred towards asian youth just posts another load of racial incitement? these are the defenders of israeli military policy?

i am also relieved to see the comment about palestinians loving their children has been deleted.

do you posters GET that racism and inciting racial hatred is not acceptable here or indeed in many, many places in the world? the fact you find it acceptable and normal and post it in a civilised location just speaks volumes of the mindset and conditioning of people who support israel's right to break international law and slaughter civilians at will.

I see JDL1 is another of those posters who joins Mumsnet solely to come onto this thread and post anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim propaganda.

Perhaps he thinks he is Explaining.

He does not recognise the right of Palestine to exist.

It is amusing that he refers to Palestinians as being recent arrivals

incidentally asians, like arabs, are not a homogenous blob of different to you therefore all the same.

asia is vast and encompasses many religions, cultures, languages, etc.

have you people just teleported here from colonial britain?

i suppose at least jdl is honest - he doesn't pretend it's about self defense or people dying through their own fault - he announces it's that he hates muslims and wants to see them destroyed. more honest than the IDF at least.

I cannot see where jdl has said anything about destroying islam.

I simply see this poster stating historical facts.

jdl mentioned destroying israel...are you getting confused?

i'm so sick of extremists and hate fuelled systems. i'm beginning to think we should build a giant arena and have a massive hunger games and all of the haters, and death to all arabs and death to all infidels and death to all gays and death to bloody anyone can go in your little clans and fight it to the death. blow each other up to your hearts content as willing participants in your hate filled destructive system whilst leaving the rest of us and innocent civilians and children out of it.

none of you get that for normal people it's not about blaming the muslims or blaming the jews or this nationality or that - it's about blaming the kind of fucking psychopaths who are fuelled by this crap and just pitying and wanting to help the poor normal people caught up in the crossfire and insanity.

all the peace loving israelis who have tried to demonstrate against this madness and often been severely punished for it are my brothers and sisters, fellow human beings. it's not about fucking nationality or religion and throwing anti semite at me is nonsense.

it's anti fucking psychopaths and their apologists who'd happily see hundreds of thousands murdered and the whole world torn apart that i'm against.

read the poster dear.

Karen, 'Destroy Islam' on the poster put up by JDL1 - which incidentally, I have reported for islamaphobia. A parenting website is really no place for such extremism and incitement to religious hatred.

But it's a handy insight into the sort of people signing up to MN to post this hateful stuff - apparently to defend the bombing and killing of unarmed civilians by the IDF.

none of you get that for normal people it's not about blaming the muslims or blaming the jews or this nationality or that - it's about blaming the kind of fucking psychopaths who are fuelled by this crap and just pitying and wanting to help the poor normal people caught up in the crossfire and insanity.

all the peace loving israelis who have tried to demonstrate against this madness and often been severely punished for it are my brothers and sisters, fellow human beings. it's not about fucking nationality or religion and throwing anti semite at me is nonsense.

I second that.

I cannot see images on my phone. I can only see text.

and believe me i'd throw george bush and tony blair and isis in there too - not just the IDF. and the white supremacists, the members of any group who preach hatred against other peoples.

i've traveled quite a lot in my lifetime including in the middle east and the majority of people i have met from all around the world are peace loving tolerant folks who wish they could be left to get on with it and get on with each other regardless of their faith, nationality, ethnicity or sexual preferences.

Honey Badger I agree with you for onece that tolerant folks should be allowed to get on with it in peace regardless of faith, ethnicity, nationality and sexual preferences. That is what I have been trying to say all along, unfortunately you get extremists which is thewhole problem. I am sure the majority of Palestinians and the majority of Israelis want this madness and horror to stop, but bashing one side constantly is not the answer, terrorist actions are not the answer, two sides need to sit down and work this out but I cannot see this happening at present, can you?. Preaching hatred re. Islamaphobia or demonizing Israel does not help

bombing the fuck out of civilians with advanced military weaponry has to stop first before people can talk nipper.

obeying international law and observing human rights has to be the pre-requisite to any form of peace negotiations.

until israel is willing to do that there can be no progress.

So what you stated before was not true, was not what you believe, you are back to bashing one side, it is all so one-sided, your true colours show again

Seriously deluded jdl1 - just because someone told you Jordan was a 'solution' does not make it so. That's like asking people from Chicago to go and live in Nepal because you think that is a tidy solution. It's just patronising and prejudiced to assume someone will leave the village of their ancestors and go and do what the us/ uk decreed colonial style.

As I have said before there is only ever condemnation from you regarding Palestinians as well, you think terrorist acts of murdering innocent Israelis is justifiable, you think the murdering of the three young boys was justifiable? of course you think it is disproportionate so those lives don't matter?

labslondon, I think you need to look at both sides here, as stated before, english are from england, irish from Irelaland, Americans from America etc. etc. Jews from Judea, is that patronising or does it show a tidy solution?

Sorry Nipper, I see how you're trying to make this a 'fault on both sides" argument - but the sides are simply not equal. The IDF have an army, a massive, sophisticated military, which they feel they can use with impunity against unarmed civilians.

Israel deserve international condemnation - not for existing, or being Jewish. But for their overtly aggressive war crimes against the people and infrastructure of Gaza, their illegal use of white phosphorous and artillery shell in civilian areas, the massive and deliberate loss of life, for the disproportionate and unjustified use of military force against unarmed people, for shooting civilians, for imprisoning children, for blockading food and medical aid to people in dire need of it.

Nipper

Do you still claim that Palestinan rockets killed the children playing football on the beach, who were shelled by an Israeli gunboat?

And the other atrocities I mentioned?

Not sure how to add my voice to the latest twists and turns, so I want to explain why I find "from the river to the sea" so offensive.

It would be offensive if an extremist Jewish settler said it, as it implies no room for a Palestinian state.
Equally, it is offensive for the Palestinians to say it, as it implies no room for a Jewish state.

The Hamas government seeks an all-or-nothing solution. Fatah seems prepared to cut a deal, although it's making high demands on behalf of its people. I truly don't know what the majority of Palestinians wish for, or would settle for.

But for the hate marches to proclaim "from the river to the sea" disturbs me, it really does. It says all-or-nothing. To me, it suggests no Israel.

You can split hairs and tell me that in fact that's not the intended meaning (or perhaps it is?), but regardless, slogans chanted on marches are not designed for subtlety.

The next time you go on one of your marches, why not shout "Justice for Palestinians" or "Peace in the Middle East"? Keep the claims that suggest the elimination of the Jewish state out of it.