Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

how many facts do you need?

how many corpses do you need?

how many un reports?

how many clear infringements of international law?

youre not dealing in facts but ideology generated from a hate generating power discourse.

THB- you can see a list of Knesset members with photos here.

oh wow - so you feel comfy being racist to asians now too?

i'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and guess you're white yeah?

thanks mulledwine - kind of as expected. funny that.

hmm jews were there at the time of jesus - not those ones darling unless you think jesus was a white dude with a beard.

it's just racism isn't it?

we let ourselves get sucked into a load of diversions when really this is just the last fucking racist apartheid regime. and the worst.

please people do report posts that are flagrantly racist. if people like this get comfy posting this bile on mumsnet it will not resemble itself.

palestinians don't love their children, asians have a murderous ideology, etc. i can't believe i'm reading this bile here.

if you haters really do believe in god then you are in for such a shock!

concheet 'It is the violence and murderous ideology of many of today's Asian "youths" that is a problem.' Wow you are racist across the board, no wonder you have no humanity when it comes to the plight of Palestinians. As an asian muslim friend of Palestine I am really offended by the casual bigoted comments on this forum. I thought this was mumsnet not zionet.

If Israel is not a democracy, how come a Muslim cleric is at liberty to stand in front of his congregation in the middle of Jerusalem and declare death to the Jews:

www.onenewsnow.com/persecution/2014/12/15/muslim-cleric-at-temple-mount-to-jews-%E2%80%98time-to-kill-you-has-come%E2%80%99#.VJBHBCusXOd

Find me examples of free speech to this extreme ever being allowed in any Islamic theocracies.

southlondonmum

you think that Israeli Jews did not steal land from Palestinian Arabs.

As an example, tell me who you think owned the houses and land of the village of Lifta.

Tell me why you think the owners have never been allowed back to their homes and land.

Tell me who will receive the money when these homes and land are sold to developers.

Don't worry, labs, there are a surprising number of newcomers all posting drivel. I'm not sure I believe it: I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're just trying to provoke a reaction. Someone made a good call pointing out that its holidays. BTW, i found your link of pm quotes quite powerful. Never mind 'lacking context' it actually gives context to what's going on here and now.

labslondon be careful not to let out your murderous ideology now! i am still stunned i read that on mumsnet.

so palestinians don't love their children and are all hamas terrorists, asian youth are violent and murderous - what's next? shall we ask her opinions on black males or single mums? any other wonderful gems from the newcomers being welcomed as 'sane voices'?

all the young asians i know seem pretty chilled out, met a few disaffected angry ones with behaviour problems but believe me as an ex teacher they come in all shapes and sizes and ethnic and religious backgrounds - obviously all the murderous ones all live round concheets neck of the woods.

www.newsweek.com/2014/12/19/gaza-one-war-one-family-five-children-four-dead-290987.html

Heartbreaking Newsweek article of a family in the aftermath of the war.
How anyone can read this and remain unmoved, and keep excusing Israeli actions I cannot comprehend.

i kind of wish we'd stop calling this a war. a war implies a sort of bilateral balance you know? blowing the hell out of civilians, homes, hosptials and schools in a residential area from air land and sea doesn't seem like a war to me.

Heartbreaking article.

Staring ahead with bloodshot eyes, Nabil, a vegetable farmer, says that when war broke out in July the family felt safe here. Gazans nearer the border came to this area to flee shelling where they lived. Nobody could escape into Egypt, which had closed its crossing at Rafah, and obviously it wasn’t possible to escape across the Israeli border into the line of fire. On the other side was the sea. “Everyone was trapped.”

On 21 July, Israeli rockets hit the house next door and, at 6am, Nabil and his terrified family fled. “We ran into the street, children were with mothers. We got 10 meters away when I heard a drone. I heard the sound of the bomb – it is a special sound – and looked up. The Israelis must have seen us. Drones see everything. The next thing I knew was a cloud of dust and I looked around for my children.”

I have a feeling that Nipper will be on soon saying it's all Egypt's fault for not letting Nabil's family cross the border, or that they were Hamas human shields, or that the family were terrorists, not vegetable farmers - such is the craziness of his/her argument - rather than blame the true cause of the deaths - Israeli bombs used in breach of International law against unarmed civilians.

Nipper & co - It's so annoying that we keep bringing this very poignant fact up, isn't it? I mean we just won't shut up about the murdered civilians and children will we?

You people sound like Stormfront. You accuse others of racism, yet don't allow one state as a haven for Jews. 1.6 billion Muslims, 22 Arab states, some 15 states have Islam as an official religion. Most Arab states won't even allow Jews in for a visit. Yet this is OK with you. It is Israel, the one state of the Jews in which all religions are permitted to practice and be a part of the government. You can't have that. You must support Hamas, whose objective is to destroy the "Jewish" state. Now I know you can't see beyond your blinders, but an objective person could consider this the worst form of racism.

Also notice how you people don't post valid objective researched facts but anecdotes and stuff without references. You don't respond to facts presented. Like why don't the majority of Arab Israelis want to move to Palestine? You don't answer because you can't. How can anyone take this kind of anti-Israel stuff seriously? It is clearly antisemitism but you just don't want to admit it since "hate speech" is illegal in Europe. But that is what most of it is.

concheet

you foolishly accuse people of being Hamas supporters when they criticise the actions of the State of Israel.

You speak of Israel being a "haven for Jews" on the condition that it is a country which institutionalises racial, ethnic and religious discrimination, which permits, encourages and legalises the theft of homes and land from people who are not of the Master Race, yet you object to what you call accusations of racism.

i notice you don't comment on the real children and people illegally murdered.

obecting to the slaughter of civilians is not 'hating israel' dear unless you see slaughtering civilians as some fundamental element of israel?

it's mindblowing to hear someone who called asian youths violent and murderous a few posts up accuse others of being racist because they are against the illegal murder of civilians and their children.

utterly bizarre. do hope she's banned soon - her racist diatribes surely fit the 'beyond the pale' category mnhq has?

Thehoneybadger this is how israel continues to carry on with impunity - because they have a blinkered army of bloggers posting 'facts' about the 'democracy' because the rest of us are 'ignorant' ... and many in places like america lap up these 'facts'.. (perhaps yet another person can remind me how I don't actually know the meaning of 'From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free' ! As if like all peace activists I like to post campaign and speak stuff about stuff without understanding any history or English....

concheet - the antisemitism cries above are a whitewash for the desperate attempts to give israel credibility for its crimes.

And 'don't allow one state as a haven for Jews' - there should be states for Jews, but not based on the corpses of people whose land has been snatched - definitely not. Especially since the holocaust was perpetrated elsewhere and others should be moving over to make way for Jews, rather than the blameless palestinians.

'valid objective researched facts' - concheet, here are some.

This website is heartbreaking because even though it speaks factually about house demolitions there are volumes of Palestinian misery and humiliation behind israel's policy to expel people out of their own homes, and off their own land.

Notice point 7 where Israel is breaking the law .. and the themes of 1. discrimination against the indigenous palestinian population and 2. apartheid throughout :

www.icahd.org/faq

Right, about had enough of some knob accusing me of anti-Semitism.
The reason I criticize Israel is the sheer injustice and hypocrisy of the whole thing. There's a lot of whataboutery when the topic gets discussed - but the thing is, within the UK, if there's an unpleasant dictatorship, it's criticized. If there's an atrocity, it's widely condemned. Until it's Israel. Then, suddenly, it's okay to indulge in mass land-theft, commit war crimes against civilian populations, and not only this but this oppressive power is being invited onto my tv screen to state their case, a fair whack of the MPs in my country belong to Friends of Israel, and the US, one of our closest allies, is actually bank-rolling the entire mess.
So basically, because it's the side "we've" backed, I'm expected to believe that black is white, people weren't forced off their land, children weren't blown up, people are not forced to live in an open air prison.... well bullshit. It's rank hypocrisy, and a festering injustice that's been going on for decades now.
And that has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, just makes the accuser sound like they're running out of arguments.

Doesn't matter if israel's a side 'we've backed', history is full of mistakes that have necessitated correction, and have been corrected.

I hope this one gets corrected soon. This latest "war" (attack) was far more visible, and far less censored thanks to social media. I'm desperately hoping that it's started the turning of the tide.