Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

mumof 2 let me counter with a list of just some of the young innocents killed this year in israel by israel simply for being the wrong race but first an article pointing out that Israel thought this was information worth hiding from its citizens..! Democracy my a%% . Also I don't think an occupying force that sits on the hills of szederot and jeers every time a rocket hits a Palestinian town is worried about retaliation - they should realise that will happen because of their behaviour ? :

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/israel-bans-radio-advert-listing-names-children-killed-gaza

the list of children killed - cdn2.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article30485898.ece/41798/ALTERNATES/w620/gaza+children.jpg

Why does a 'free Palestine' terrify the oppressors?

Nipper
" some of these you quote have been proven since to actually have been caused by Palestinian rockets"

I gave three examples

An Israeli gunboat shelling children playing football on a beach

Israeli artillery shelling a family having a picnic

An Israeli soldier shooting an unarmed Palestinian farmer trying to work his fields in the shadow of Israel's Apartheid Wall

Where on earth did you get the idea that any of these have been proven to be caused by Palestinian rockets?

Again nippernoo I do know the 'true' meaning, every legal and peace geared gathering I attended for palestine had people emphasising israel has a right to exist, just not as a bloodthirsty occupier. If you have taken someone's land from the river to the sea it is only fair to let them back to populate it - israelis can and should live side by side in a free palestine (if you focus on the last bit of the chant it talks about freedom not occupation israeli style).

Raghd mas'oud, not even 3 years old. Palestinian medics trying to revive her after israeli strikes. She didn't stand a chance! She was then put in a freezer as there was no more space in the morgue. I am a mother. I cannot forget this and the hundreds of other children slaughtered by israel. And israeli politicians have the sickening tendency to call these palestinian children snakes who must be killed.

We will not forget.

labslondon - you know nothing about history clearly. You are just making this up as you go. Israel did not TAKE all the land from the Palestinians. The UN gave both groups their own country. Israel said thank you very much. The Palestinians said NO WAY and the surrounding nations attacked. And guess what. The arab nations lost. This is reality. Not your made up version of events.

I too shall not forget. I shall not forget everytime an Israeli dies the Palestinians celebrate. Remember 9/11. The whole world stopped. Everyone was in shock. Do you remember the Palestinians actions that day? They ceelebrated. They passed out candy in the streets. This was a reason to celebrate. DEATH. They celebrate death. Please all of you go live in Gaza and see how it really is. You are all taking isolated incidents and making them to be the whole story. This is not the case. Just because one nutter celebrates a bomb going off does not mean all if Israel and the Jews there celebrated. The Israelis value life. Deny it all you want. But it's the truth. Just because you don't want to see it doesn't mean it isn't real. Look at what Judaism teaches. Then compare to the Koran. I dare you all.

That is a nasty diatribe against islam. Everyone has read the history books. Israel was given someone else's country, and they need to return it. I've lived in the middle east and have friends who visit palestine regularly so we know our facts first hand. Many will not forget israel's atrocities or stop campaigning till Israel returns Palestinians their rights - here are two examples of protests from this year - Chicago and London.

It's very telling how the supporters of israel, keep bringing up vile racist rhetoric over and over again. Then they talk about israel's peace loving and tolerant nature whilst looking forward to making its arab israelis second class citizens by law.

Is the Israeli government twisted, blind, deluded or racist - which one?

Every Palestinian from the river to the sea, has the right to be free.

Tis not just the israeli government that's racist, but also its youth as this article shows bennorton.com/study-israeli-teenagers-are-violently-racist-proud-of-it/

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

What does this mean? To Palestinian journalist and activist Abusalama it means,

"A liberated Palestine means that my imaginative homeland, which my grandmother made me always long for with her nostalgic memories, will not be a matter of imagination. It means that I will return to my origional village of Beit-Jerja from which my grandparents were ethnically cleansed, and harvest the crops of citrus and olive trees that they left behind. It means that I will not be treated by Israel as a demographic threat to their Jewish-only entity.

"A liberated Palestine means that Israeli jails, which my father calls "graves for the living" after he was imprisoned there as a political detainee for 15 years, will be emptied. A free Palestine means that I will be able to move freely within Palestine and outside it without being humiliated and abused when crossing between military checkpoints, borders or airports. A free Palestine means that I will no longer feel that Jerusalem is too far despite it being just half an hour away from where I live in the besieged Gaza Strip.

"The freedom of Palestinian land and humanity makes Palestine free."

So yes, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

Free Palestine!

mumof2andlovingit Tue 16-Dec-14 11:32:22
"I shall not forget everytime an Israeli dies the Palestinians celebrate"

Celebrate, you say?

How about sitting watching and cheering?
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

Pass the popcorn at the Sderot cinema.

They ARE scum

No school in Gaza, the children are all dead.
Do you know the tune?

Abusalam puts it so well, Amen to that.

Labslondon, a very telling article you posted. Many Israeli youth have been raised to be racist as they admit themselves. The attack on the jewish-arab school was perpetrated by racist Israeli youths as well. We can see the same racist rhetoric in some of the posts by israel supporters on this thread too.

We have also seen how Israel treats its own minority of citizens who don't wish to see Palestinians bombed nor to see a racist apartheid state.

Interesting aftermath to the sderot jeering crowds - cnn reassigned its journalist afterwards - which is a very very dodgy incarnation of "democracy" involving suppressing the press !

www.nydailynews.com/news/world/cnn-reporter-calls-israelis-cheering-missiles-striking-gaza-scum-article-1.1871699

Your true colours are evident in all your statements. If you really believe Israel stole someone else's land you are delusional and there is no point in tryng to reason with you. Can't reaon with crazy!

I think rather than hysterically posting statements to try to defend Israel (which is impossible) we should as parents ensure the next generation knows about Palestinian suffering - for example I make sure I take my kid to peace rallies so she is aware of the facts rather than the media generated fiction.

Mumof2 your contempt for and dehumanisation of the Palestinians shines through with every post.
Your grasp of the facts is also non-existant. Leaving aside the highly controversial decision to give Palestinian land to the Zionists in order to forom Israel, have you any idea how little of the Palestinian land remains? It's shrinking daily. Literally as we speak. The West Bank is constant land grabs.
It's also a bit of a shit trick using Islamiphobia to make your point.
You demonise those poor people. It's shameful.

mumof2andlovingit "If you really believe Israel stole someone else's land you are delusional"
but
"If the Palestinians think they are getting their homes back - that is a delusion"

It's very difficult to find any sense in what you say.

Do you have anything to add about the village of Lifta, and how it related to your views on violence, terrorism, murder, and the theft of homes and land?

Or have you already given all the excuses you can think of?

There's something really chilling in those quotes of mumof2 above. Gloating, almost.

mumof2andlovingit "If you really believe Israel stole someone else's land you are delusional"
but
"If the Palestinians think they are getting their homes back - that is a delusion"

There it is again, for anyone who missed it first time around.

I have said nothing to dehumanise anyone

You don't need to, mumof2andlovingit - as with all the other lies, it's only necessary for one of the haters to say you have, and that's enough for those who seem to feel that if a lie's repeated often enough it will somehow become true

It's the same with mentioning any atrocities committed by Palestinians, since few will acknowledge them - most thinking people accept there have been dreadful acts by all, but here you'll just get another reference to something they feel Israel have done or, if that fails, accusations of irrelevance, deflection and "whataboutery"

I don't post often because, like all rational posters who've departed, I've learned there's little point; those determined to demonise Israel are so committed to their warped agenda that they've unable to recognise that another point of view might even exist, never mind consider it

Israel demonise themselves when they bomb Gaza using hugely disproportionate (and illegal) force.

mumof2 "the situation the Palestinians have put themselves in" - this is a joke right ? Palestinians should not have to 'settle' anywhere, how moronic that a people are thrown off their land and you decide they then have to go elsewhere.