Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

piglet - show me your sources for your "story." I have followed the middle east conflict very closely most of my life. I am very knowledgeable, but not ashamed to admit when I learn something new. I read news from a variety of sources, online mostly these days.

halfdrunkcoffee- I read the article - but not sure I agree with all that they are saying. I don't see anything that specifically says the Jews would get preferential treatment. this was a very informative article: mondoweiss.net/2014/12/israels-jewish-nationality

southlondonmum

"the land is not 'stolen', I'm afraid you do not get to define Israel's boundaries and overall international rulings etc"

No, they are determined by the mighty army of the State of Israel, which takes what it wants and makes its own rules.

As an example, tell me who you think owned the houses and land of the village of Lifta.

Tell me why you think the owners have never been allowed back to their homes and land.

Tell me who will receive the money when these homes and land are sold to developers.

Gideon Levy, in quite an old piece (2010) talks to many many of the concerns shared by people on this thread, people who are accused of 'hating Israel': www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most-hated-man-in-israel-or-just-the-most-heroic-2087909.html . Interesting - in light of these accusations - that the title mentions hatred (of Israelis for a fellow citizen and Jew). He touches on the dehumanisation of Palestinians, the brainwashing of Israelis, the culture of israeli violence, the development of arab extremism, historic parallels, the "scam of peace talks", proportionality, boycotts... He is a local. He has compassion. Let's hope his message is heard as more than an easily dismissed 'whistle in the dark'.

I was particularly intrigued by his view on the effectiveness of boycotting vs the only thing to influence Israeli policy being the US. As I said earlier, wonder what tomorrow's meeting between netanyahu and the US will bring.

piglet - you certainly have an agenda here...are you even a parent? again are you on any other threads about China? or Iran? or Somalia? what about all the starving children out there? are you doing anything to fight for them? what about all the people in the world with no running water? or a right to an education? How about the untouchables in India? Are you asking what the world is doing about them? why aren't you taking issue with India? Do you just have it out for Israel?

I too have lived in Israel and while I wouldn't say any country is without flaw, it is certainly the only country in the Middle East where everyone, Jew. Muslim, Christian or any other religion or creed can speak and practice their faith freely, and it's also rarely mentioned how gay culture is embraced - try living as openly gay elsewhere in the Middle East! Medical treatment of the highest calibre is available to all and often taken up by Palestinian leadership who have no qualms about availing themselves of the finest medical facilities while encouraging their communities to shun it. For all the impoverished Palestinians you see paraded in the shop window that is the media, please believe there are many extremely wealthy and highly educated Palestinians who reject Israel's attempts to improve living circumstances for Gazans as it will 'rob us of our culture' - I've seen it first hand and was very saddened that people could wish squalor and poverty on their brethren for political ends, but this really is the case - seeing is believing and I've seen!

Whataboutery gone mad. No answers to piglet's straightforward and pertinent questions though.

Didn't anyone read the informative mondoweiss article linked to above? It talked about the nationality bill being a step back to 'unenlightened' times where religious affiliation will result in inequality, with 'ominous' trends to protect Jewish heritage above all else. A million miles from a pinkwashed religious utopia. Seeing is only believing when you view selectively.

mumof2andlovingit

You are of course welcome to start threads about all the things you feel strongly about. I promise not to come onto your Somalia thread and keep saying "what about the West Bank?"

And I didn't join yesterday and home in with my Explaining on the Palestine/Israel thread.

How can a land be stolen from a nation that has no counterclaim to it nor does it have any religious significance to them as it does to the Jewish people. Let's have a look at a few facts before anymore uneducated responses make an appearance.

Firstly Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish people for more than 3000 years way before the creation of Islam and the existence of the invented people the palestinians who are initially refugees from arab countries such as Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and many more.

Secondly Israel the Promised Land is mention over 700 times in the Tanach the jewish holy scriptures but not mentioned once in the Quran the islamic holy book.

Mohammed never stepped foot in the Promised Land.

The muslims pray with their back to Jerusalem and the jews pray towards Jerusalem.

The palestinian people are a nation created from thin air who are refugees from arab countries most being of Jordanian descent kicked out and left to fend for themselves.

The Land was stolen centuries ago but stolen from the jewish people.

You can't argue facts and figures that are reliable sources based on historical events and proof written in black and white so all those who claim the Holy Land belongs to the palestinian people I think it might be time to head back to the drawing board and think out your arguments again.

Trojatot, do you dispute the findings of b'tselem?

I dispute all lies that people like you are pushing through trying to get others sympathy and make them teary eyed.

Today Hamas and the people of Gaza had a celebration. Did they have balloons, cake, a concert maybe? Perhaps some face painting and donkey rides? NO! They burnt an effigy of a Jew, burnt Israeli flags, and made coffins with pictures of the 4 rabbis who were hacked to death a couple of weeks ago! Please understand what they are showing you is pure lies and Propoganda. Don't be taken in. Read the facts.

I see we have some extremists joined the thread in the last day or two.

Why is everyone who has the opposite opinion to yours, an 'extremist ', piglet?

It is not extremist to post about facts. I have seen the reports that latke is talking about. These things did happen.

It is not 'extremist' to say so.

To balance the far left extrimism there should be a bit of right wing views

"if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes so called Palestine"

yeah, right.

"palestinian people are a nation created from thin air"

yeah, right.

For those crying about the atrocities committed in other parts of of the world, these arguments were raised and counter argued in the early threads. It was at a point where there seemed to be an influx of new members suddenly.

I have been to Israel and have family there. I have seen first hand how they treat Arabs and other minorities. I never want to go back. It's not a place I would want to raise my children. Ever.

Before I even start to respond to so many people who know ONLY what they read about Israel and the problems she faces, please take a minute to READ Hamas' charter.
Only then will anyone understand this isn't about land.
Open your eyes and do a little research on your own instead of believing everything you hear from either side.
Until then, it's basically pointless to waste my time trying to refute the WEALTH of misinformation on this thread.
Shavua tov, Israel.
Hamas' charter can be found in English here:
fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm

Yeah, we've already been over this on earlier threads, but here's some research: mondoweiss.net/2014/07/understanding-hamas

I see we have some new posters covering the same old ground that has been discussed in orevious threads. I see we have the same diversion tactics and whataboutery going on.

yurapita, you are not the thread police. people are allowed to write the truth!

I'm relieved there are some sane posters here now who are stating facts about Israel. sorry if they don't fit your agenda!