Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

As ever, No peace on netanyahu's agenda.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/14/binyamin-netanyahu-israel-resist-timetable-end-occupation

Sane posters??? I see a bunch of Zionism loons have slithered out from somewhere but I don't see any sand posters.

To expand on why I'm losing my patience with this nonsense... There is such a massive, glaring power imbalance between the two sides in this "conflict" that I'm sorry but yes of course the onus is on the side with all the power to exercise a bit of restraint. I can at least see that there are just ordinary people on both sides caught up in a horribly biased narrative.
So when people turn up and essentially characterise the Palestinians as some sort of evil other, or portray powerful Israel as the victim of some of the most helpless people on the planet, it starts to wear a little thin.
I saw the pictures of the dead children.

It's interesting that Trojatot (22.18) equates murderers and Palestinians, as the same set of people who do not deserve human rights.

Karensgirl. Unfortunately it is not as simple as Israel has offered peace many times before, and the Palestinians, ungrateful wretches that they are, have turned down all peace offerings. The fact is that "peace" offered by Israel was solely protecting Israel's interests, and the offers were deliberately constructed so the Palestinians would turn them down. Israel has no interest in offering anything to the Palestinians - Netanyahu himself has confirmed this on many occasions, saying Israel will never relinquish control of the occupied territories. The Camp David meeting in July 2000 failed because the offer by Israel was not a withdrawal to pre 1967 lines, with Israel retaining 78 percent of the Palestine Mandate and the Palestinians having the remaining 22% of contiguous land made up of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Instead, the offer was a complete withdrawal from Gaza, but included annexation of strategic and valuable parts of the West Bank, thus offering significantly less than the 22% whilst retaining security control by Israel thus prohibiting the Palestinians from free movement and trade within their state without the approval of the Israeli Government. The Palestinian land would be separate bantustans. with the West Bank divided into three cantons. Part of the West Bank land that Israel wanted to annex is prime fertile land with water aquifers, and in exchange, Israel offered the Palestinians part of the Negev desert instead, 1/10th of the size of the land it would annex in the West Bank. The land in the Negev desert included a toxic waste dump. The land that Israel wanted to annex would have forced the Palestinians to cross Israeli land any time they wanted to visit or trade with another canton, and the roads and check points could be closed at will by the Israelis. If Arafat had agreed to this, it would have locked the Palestinians into an occupied sub human status forever. Israel also offered no recompense to the refugees for their losses, and demanded that Palestinians sign an end of conflict agreement waiving all future claims against Israel. Nobody in their right mind would have signed this.

is it uni holiday time in israel again?

how many dollars per post is it they are paid again?

I was thinking middle school rather than uni. What time will they be home?

just chatted with a friend in egypt, they're two hours ahead so school should be out any time now.

Why resort to insulting posters because they have different views to you?

bullying behaviour.

not about insulting posters but noticing pattern dear.

KareninsGirl Mon 15-Dec-14 13:20:52
"Why resort to insulting posters because they have different views to you?"

like mumof2andlovingit Sun 14-Dec-14 22:01:45 you mean.

or the days when i was the only pro equal rights for palestinians poster on here and was subjected to endless personal attacks and insults.

Some of us on here really are parents - and have other things to deal with during the day. Clearly Piglet is the one wih nothing else in life and must be getting paid for his work here. I resent your absurd accusations about being paid and being a student. I am not a Jew. Just because I defend Israel and think it has a right to exist, should I be attacked. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourselves what kind of parent are you. Do you teach your children to love and respect others? Do you teach them tolerance and acceptance? Love thy neighbours? I do each and every day. Until the world can accept each other as we are and not want to change each person into what they believe is right - we will never have peace. HAMAS is clear in their intentions. They will not rest until Palestine is free from the river to the sea and there are no more jews. Would you want to live in a world like that? I sure don't! I want a future for my children. I want peace and so do the Israeli's. The sooner the world calls on the Palestinians to want peace - it will happen.

i do indeed teach my child to love and respect others. i also teach him to obey the law - not that he has attempted any war crimes yet at least.

do you teach your child it's ok to kill thousands of innocent civilians if you don't like their leaders? ok to kill a whole family by blowing up their home and then defecate and smear excrement on the walls afterwards? ok to bomb hospitals and schools? ok to use toxic weaponry designed for full scale war in confined residential spaces? ok to steal people's homes and land to give to people of the 'right' ethnicity? ok to put children in prison without charge?

or just teach them that people on the side you like can do whatever the hell they like because you don't like the people they're doing it to?

wake up.

Do you teach your children to simply boycott the only democracy in the middle east? I wonder why you do this by the way?

Good to see some offensive israeli-apologist messages have been deleted. I reported some if those posts which karenins declared to be sane posts full of wisdom! The world has watched children killed by Israel. The harrowing pictures of dead Palestinian children on facebook and the likes will remain etched on people's minds. Israeli propaganda machine is failing in the age of social media.

Thank you rojo48 for a great post. Israel tends to offer Palestinians crumbs and declares to the world how gracious they are being by offering toxic waste!

Mumof2, Palestine has every right to be free from the river to the sea, as you say. Or do you think israel's right trumps those of Palestinians? Rojo48 has mentioned the rubbish deal offered by Israel. Do you think that is an acceptable deal for a people to always live looking for Israeli approval for trade and waiting at checkpoints? That's not freedom is it. Or is this the sort of world status quo that you are content with, where Palestinians are forever oppressed and dehumanised by Israel?

karenin i don't give a flying monkey whether a country calls itself a democracy or not if it is committing war crimes and breaking international law and human rights conventions with impunity. they can call themselves high supreme beings of the planet lexus for all i care.

in fact calling themselves a democracy and claiming to be alike the UK just makes it worse for me.

and democracy means if there are four wolves and a sheep guess who gets eaten when you really get down to it.

if the wolves then decide to get together and practice ethnic cleansing of sheep to make sure that 'democratic' model will continue to work in their favour i'm not sure what you call it.

hmm there's a hell of a sheep... lets herd them into a pen over here and bomb the fuck out of them killing thousands at a time and leaving radioactive toxic waste to continue killing them even when we pretend to ceasefire. whatever we do let's never never go for a one state system unless we eradicate the sheep population down to ooh, say about ten?

a lot of the images of those poor dead children were from Syria not gaza. don't believe everything you see on the Internet.

u did not pick out a particular poster snd call them sane. I am very happy there are some sane posters standing up for israel here.

like it or not Israel is a democracy. as I have said, it's interesting you should choose to single out the only democracy in the middle east for such vitriolic condemnation.

oh so they didn't murder children then? are you a palestinian slaughter denier karenin?

I do not deny that conflict involved victims.

I know that many images distributed on the Internet and even via the bbc were in fact from Syria not gaza.

They most certainly did murder many hundreds of children. That's not even a fact open to dispute.

"a lot of the images of those poor dead children were from Syria not gaza"
What an utterly stupid, insensitive thing to say. 490 children were murdered this summer by Israel.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-50day-war-by-numbers-9693310.html#
As for our new posters, you are really fooling no one.