Oscar Pistorius trial part 4

[Pennies]

Here you go.

Yes that's right dwinnol, all those testifying are required to address their answers to the judge.

Thanks Voiceodgodot. It's terribly distracting when he's being cross-examined by Nel (sp?)

Everyone has to answer my lady to the judge

In regards to the urine question - I've tried to find where I read this but can't so from memory - her bladder was empty (unusual for that time of night and someone just waking up) but the loo was clear. So either she'd just been and flushed or she'd been earlier but recently.

I really feel sorry for the situation he is in actually. All this for a short relationship, what a terrible outcome for both of them. He faces years in prison, losing all his achievements, and she has died in terrible circumstances. The horror must be unbearable for him and her family. I agree nerf assuming his intent was as he says it was and that he is truly remorseful (which I believe he is every time I hear him speak), although I don't think this is a popular view.

I just wish that the jail sentence didn't involve likely beatings, rape, spread of illness etc because every time someone says 'he needs to go to jail' that's what I think of. I don't really disagree about a jail sentence, but the sentencing is so much more than being locked away to serve time and I don't think that is justice being served as it should be.

Been reading this blog. Quite interesting

Am going to be v pissed off if Sky stop showing the trial live tomorrow. Have you all been watching online instead?

Not sure how I'll manage as got a 16 month old and a 12 week old so it's been really good to have the TV on in the background loudly, to drown out screeching! Will have to try with my ipad instead

Sauce - I seem to recall Nel getting the expert witness to say that her bladder was empty, but at degree of emptiness with somebody who may have been to the loo very recently but up to one hour earlier.

gobbol not read the whole lot but re Crawford, wasn't she the one who tweeted the photo of the autograph (which certainly did not put him in a good light)? Or was that later found to be false? I have found her to be biased in the opposite direction (she said yesterday something about looking pathetic), but I haven't been reading all her tweets.

I seem to recall that her bladder had a teaspoon of urine? DS distracted me, and I completely missed the bladder voiding expert testimony! So can't remember if it meant she had just peed or not! Sorry Reeva. It's only because I care, and want justice for you

sauce yes, Reeva's bladder was empty and no urine in the toilet bowel.

So. Did she go to the loo for wee while OP was moving the fans, and if so why didn't he hear the loo flush?

If she had gone earlier and emptied her bladder, why did she go to the toilet just before he shot her?? Can't be because he said that there was an intruder, as he said it was the sound of her in the bathroom opening the window that led him to believe that there was intruder.

So, why did she go into the toilet?????

I'm reading through some of the earlier (Sky) tweets from the eariler days. I didn't realise that the defence ballistics person had already given evidence.

#OscarPistorius Botha says he has 'reasonably accurate idea of what happened' with ref to shooting

#OscarPistorius Botha: 1st shot was one over right hip. She was standing, slightly flexed forward, nr door. (Same view as State)

#OscarPistorius Botha: Injury to hip, left her totally unstable, making her fall down. 2nd shot struck arm. (Same as State too)

#OscarPistorius Botha: 3rd shot injured left hand. She'd dropped and left hand was over right side of body, fell against mag rack.

#OscarPistorius Botha says last shot was shot to head.

So that resolves the issue of the order of the bullets. Which means I have no idea about the magazine rack and its relevance.

Hmm I'm not sure about that blog. He/She may be more expert than I, but I don't presume to know better how a court should work, or how advocates should present their case. I have at times found both Roux and Nel frustrating, but do respect the fact that they probably know what they're doing a lot more than I do...

Apart from the possibility of hiding from him, I think someone suggested that she could have been in the bathroom and when she heard OP shouting at intruders and then took refuge in the toilet. So then the question is why she would have gone to the bathroom.

Need to catch up.

I think if he goes to prison there is a possibility he will end his own life, I don't think he will cope at all, I do feel he will get a prison sentence, I think this whole awful tragedy is going to end in even more tragedy.

Reeva's bladder was empty and no urine in the toilet bowel

Oh my goodness - I had missed this completely . Agree - why on earth had she gone to the toilet then?

I think you might be right Free.

SirChenjin - she may have flushed but it has not been reported in OP's evidence that he heard it.

I can't believe Nel didn't go into the matter of the key more deeply. I have always wondered how he would have reached in to get the key, and now that it's been made clear that the toilet was in darkness, how would he have even seen it.

I think OP has seriously got his moneys worth out of Barry Roux with expert coaching. No matter how many times he was asked did he intend to shoot the door, he would say no it was an accident, and the number of times he was asked if the accident was pulling the trigger 4 times, he would say he was scared and feared for his life. No matter how Nel phrased his questions, OP managed to answer along those lines, even if the answer didn't fit the question.

I think it became apparent to Nel that he was never going to get an admission to these simple questions.

I feel a bit deflated, because Nel said he was going to prove it without a doubt that OP knew it was Reeva, and so far he hasn't done that. I do think that if the law is followed, he will do time as no one should ever be able to fire through a closed door, kill someone and not pay the consequences.

I'm surprised by the one precedent that was set by the rugby player shooting at someone driving away after stealing his daughters car (which turned out to be his daughter in her own car). There was no threat to life, and while he is certainly punished by his own daughter's death, he did intend to kill someone.

That was me that said that Bonnie, I still feel that, I think she got up and went into the bathroom, opened the window, then OP heard window, told Reeva to get down and call police, he then grabbed his gun, started out at top of passage and shouted to intruders/Reeva at this point Reeva toke refugee in toilet, this is where OP heard the door slam.

My only question is, is why did she go to the bathroom in the first place, with her phone.

I don't think she was in the toilet to start with.

free yes I agree. I think that may have been what he meant when he said near the start that he is 'defending for his life'. Tragedy heaped on tragedy.

This is also about the magazine rack:

Botha says no blood in magazine rack, disputes State's case Reeva was thrown onto it in sitting position

That's followed a few questions later by:

These shots cd have been fired within four seconds.' Before she cd react, the remaining bullets wd have struck her

Botha says if the shots were in rapid succession, she cd not have made a noise. Unlikely she wd have screamed

Botha says after being hit, Reeva's movements wd have been involuntary. She wdnt have been in control of her movements

I wonder now if the magazine rack question is related to whether (or when) she screamed.

It's also followed by:

#OscarPistorius Botha says she must have 'voided her bladder' very shortly before she died. And thats his evidence done.

So she went into the toilet to wee, according to the defence.

I am so confused by the jeans (inside out / right way round thing). I can't believe OP or the police would turn them the other way round. Can anyone shed light on this?

Ah, thanks for the replies about the urine.

Now, if he was moving the fans, why are they doing all this 'in the dark'?

There's no ambient light to help anyone see, so why, why would she go in the dark? The loo is far enough away from the bed to have a light on and not disturb anyone...

Another thing I thought would be made more of is why would OP put on his legs, and then take the gun back into the bathroom. He puts on his legs with both hands, and then consciously has to pick up the gun again to take it back?

Doesn't the 'no urine in the toilet bowl' simply point to the fact that she flushed it? (though that's all about why he didn't hear the flush again).