DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

I went to Cambridge but wouldn't encourage my child to go. The short terms and lack of seminars isn't the best way to learn in my opinion. Plus socially it was off kilter due to the selection process and public school background.

There's a line between encouraging and supporting your child and being pushy - you're straying into pushy.

You can encourage her to go the open days, but if she says she wants a more fun university then she's unlikely to want to pursue Oxbridge. The environment is not for everyone - we all thrive in different conditions and personal happiness is a huge factor in that.

Why are you so keen for your daughter to go to Oxbridge?

Well did you go there and know it is for her for specific reasons or are you going 'wow Oxbridge I need to have a child go because of the names' first off

@starpatch at least they have a third term. My son at Manchester seems to have about three weeks of term three and that’s for exams only! I feel the uni year is generally incredibly reduced in terms of teaching hours nowadays.

I was in one of those prep for Oxbridge groups at sixth form and I did not apply. I visited a couple of times and knew it wouldn't suit me. I don't regret it at all. I went on to another Russell Group uni in London and lived my best life. It's great that your DD knows herself. Let her forge her path.

It is very studious. I went there and still have connections and I can say the students today seem to be far more academic and hard working than my cohort ! I suspect it's partly due to pressure of fees and partly due to selection as to get in you need to be so much more academically able in my view as the competition is so fierce.
Parents i know with Oxbridge kids, yes they work extremely hard. The pressure is quite intense in the short terms with a lot of deadlines for essays etc and reading to do outside. They do have a social life too ! But it's just all packed into a far shorter time frame and it would IMHO not suit those prone to anxiety or who lack confidence.
My DS did apply vut didnt get in, has ended up in a RG uni and is having a far bigger focus on sport /social as a result compared to those doing same subject at Oxbridge.

Just to be clear I’m not saying I want her to go to Oxbridge. I do think an Oxbridge degree probably confers an edge with employers and provides useful connections but I’m not some madly pushy Oxbridge focused parent. I had not really thought it it until she was asked to join the group. What I’m saying I want her to keep an open mind, go to the preparation group and learn more about it, talk to other students who have been, visit an open day, make an informed choice.

i did not go and have no close friends who did so I have no idea whether she’s right that the student body is studious and parties are rarer. I just want her to test that hypothesis before rejecting the opportunity out right.

Just reading the title, if your DD's reason was that she didn't like universities with 'O' in their name, it's perfectly valid on the grounds that it's her choice and not yours.

The terms are very short and intense, but it sounds like your daughter has the smarts to handle that expected level of rigour and demands.

That aside, the people I know who went to Oxford or Cambridge had a lot of fun. It’s less club central in the way somewhere like Manchester would be, clearly. Nonetheless, they’re still plenty of time to let your hair down if you’re not completely overwhelmed by the essay demands, which to be fair some people are.

However, in a very tight graduate jobs market, there’s a certain cachet that comes with doing English at Oxbridge. She might want to think about it from a future jobs possibility too. It is still the case that Oxford and Cambridge degrees open doors in a way that others don’t.

I certainly drank and partied a lot at Oxford, but a few decades ago. There are all types of people, just like at any other university. You do have to work very hard to pass well though, which isn't so easy with a hangover. She might find it easier and more plesant to cruise to a 2:1 at Manchester with a hangover. She'd still have to work for a first. Depends how ambitious she is really.

Got to be her choice. Dds friend was like this. Her mum who went to Cambridge herself basically forced her to apply. She got an interview but she didn’t get an offer pretty sure they can pick up on the reluctance ! Damaged the mother and daughter’s relationship.

I’m an Oxbridge grad. I agree with your dd.

We were in this exact position last year. DD was in an oxbridge group at school and went to the open day and was about to apply. Then decided it wasn’t for her, felt that she wanted a less pressured experience and loved a few of the other unis she visited more. Plus when she started preparing for her personal statement it became v clear that she wasn’t doing the level of supracurricular reading and research that they expect and she didn’t really want to try to do that in a short space of time just to get in. Right decision for her and sounds like for your dd too. Time to let the dream go and move on- for you that is. There are plenty of of other amazing unis out there where she may have a better time. And this sounds like it’s your dream not hers. I felt a tiny bit of it as it would have been nice to say I had a dd at oxbridge 😆but then I thought about how guilty I’d feel if I pushed her into it and she hated it so I quickly got over it and moved on!

Leave her be. Let her walk her own path. She has an idea now what she wants to do and where. That is great. (My son joined one of those groups, got his head turned, and now hasn't got in. He is now having to get his head back around going to his 'back up' uni (as long as he gets the grades). The one I actually think will be best. But because he was swayed by the talk of the top unis he has discounted looking at others that may also have been good. Your daughter sounds grounded. Leave her be.

My son is at Oxford, and while he has time to socialise, I don’t think he would keep up with the work if he led the party lifestyle that was my experience of university. He works exceptionally hard. The work is really challenging, and there is nowhere to hide in a two-person tutorial if you have a hangover, or haven’t prepared adequately. He has frequently had tutorials moved to Saturdays at short notice, so you aren’t guaranteed a lazy lie in at the weekends.

I think there is a good social life to be had there; I don’t think the students are all monks! But it’s certainly not the hard-drinking, clubbing, dissolute life that I led at 18.

One DD chose Bristol over Cambridge, still got a brilliant degree but enjoyed her 4 years very much. DS chose Newcastle and absolutely loved every minute. They both worked hard but had great social lives and didn't feel the pressure that a couple of their friends at Oxford did.
If your DD is happy with her choice, that's all that matters

I understand that you want her to explore the possibility but ultimately it is up to her
DD2 was asked to join a cohort of people who were expected to apply to Oxbridge
DD was predicted 4 A stars
I knew that DD2 didn’t want to go to Oxbridge because of the intense workload but she felt as though she had to apply because the school handpicked her .
Dd2 got through the first stage and was supposed to prep for the interview . She did very little prep for the interview and didnt get a place . Dd2 is the type of person who will work hard if she wants something so it was obvious she didn’t want to go to Oxbridge .
She achieved four A stars and went to another university

Isn't it also a question if whether the teaching style will suit her? Would the prospect of a tutorial with three or four others and a tutor, dissecting the meaning of a tract of literature excite her, or cause her to groan inwardly/dread it? My DS would hate that. He has the brains but could not imagine up anything worse than what I have outlined above. He doesn't have the passion and academic curiosity needed to thrive at Oxbridge (which presumably would be picked up at interview so would not get an offer) so he didn't apply and instead is going to a similar university to the ones you mentioned in your OP.

Manchester Uni has great employer links. My children have been the Oxbridge groups, would’ve suited one but not the other. DD did not like it at all when she visited.

Has she not heard of the Bullingdon Club? Oxford, and Cambridge, have loads of hedonistic people.

Ultimately it’s her choice, and if she doesn’t want to, don’t bother bringing the horse to water.
She will get to a point where she realizes “I didn’t go to Oxbridge because I preferred partying” sounds silly to her peers.

I’m an Oxford grad - a long time ago now!

But I agree with your daughter.

The terms are very short (8 weeks), and most people live in university halls of residence rather than private rented houses so go home over the holidays. Physically you’re just not there that much.

There are parties and nights out but those are more likely to be “bops” (discos organised by students, often with student DJs, in the college’s dining hall or bar), or parties in halls of residence (there are staff at most of these so a limit on how wild/noisy it gets) and then formal things like “formal hall” (dinner in the dining hall but you dress smartly for it, and are served at the tables) or May Balls. I was there 5 years and think I went out to actual clubs in Oxford 3 or 4 times? It just wasn’t much on our radar.

Also the workload is very intense, more so than at most places.

So yes there is a cachet to Oxbridge but it sounds like she won’t enjoy it much.

I was a similar child and also didn’t apply. It was the right choice. I went to an excellent uni and I still don’t think I would have thrived in Oxford. In the long run, none of it really matters any way.

She's a grown up and it is her choice.

The only thing you should say to her is to consider where she wants a degree to take her as life can't only be about partying, and whether on Oxford English degree would open more doors, give her more connections etc that she would appreciate later?

She should only consider Oxford as it is a more party place than Cambridge and interacts more with London, but she's probably exactly right that neither would suit her. I have two DC who went to Oxbridge and the third who observed them and said, I may have the grades but it's not for me. He was completely right and had an absolute ball where he went, came out with a decent degree and a job he's loving. I think he'd have floundered at Oxbridge. I couldn't be happier for or prouder of him.

A friend's kid went to Oxbridge, and hated it that much they dropped out in first year. They are now at another uni, and loving it.

I'd be wary of pushing Oxbridge, it needs to come from your daughter.

A colleague's daughter didn't get into Oxford because she got some GCSE grade 8s

This is what I was told, of course I have no idea if it's true