DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

I went to open days, interviews, and was informally offered a place which I turned down.

It sounds a bit sad now but at the time I simply felt I was too cool for it 😂 I was a bit like your daughter - very good academically but also going to gigs and parties. All the boys seemed really nerdy there and they weren’t good looking or well dressed enough for me. It sounds incredibly shallow but that did play a big part in my decision.

I think on some level I just knew that I wouldn’t fit in coming from my background. I went to another uni and am now in an industry where I’m surrounded by Oxbridge grads. It’s probably only been a slight disadvantage if at all.

I read English at Oxford and my experience was that the students were a mixed bag, like students anywhere. The factor in common was a particularly strong love of their subject rather than being overly studious or un-fun.

I would suggest your daughter goes to an open day before deciding. Zero commitment required.

People who graduated from oxbridge over 20 years ago are often quite stuck up and very out of step with the times. There is an obsession with the past and traditions which are often at odds with the world we live in.

If she doesn't want to work really hard during term time, she shouldn't go to Oxbrodge. The terms are short but intense. Yes, many students do go out once or twice a week, but neither of them is a 'party' uni.

That said, is your DD wanting to go to university for any reason besides partying? £10k plus living expenses per year is a lot of money to waste if she's just going to coast along for 3 years.

Gently op, it’s her life! From how you describe her, it doesn’t seem a good match for Oxbridge plus whilst they are good grades, they are not exceptional, they will have applications with straight 9’s who actually want to be there. Going to university should be about her, not you. I would suggest perhaps a gap year would be excellent to get the partying out of her system a bit (plus work and save money) as not all 18 year olds are ready to study yet, just a thought

I got an offer but decided not to go to Cambridge. No regrets.

But I have to say the Oxbridge 'prep' we did was a lot of fun, we had a couple of nights in Oxford and Cambridge, went punting, stayed in halls, got drunk 😀 We were partnered up with some other schools as some sort of widening access initiative. Not much of a success I don't think, nobody went.

Lol, nonsense. There are loads of us who went to Oxbridge from state schools, most of us in fact didn't go to private schools and are perfectly normal people who just happen to be very academic.

Most of my year are living normal lives in normal professional jobs.

I have lived in Oxford, Cambridge and Manchester. Manchester is by far a much more vibrant fun city. The others are quite provincial.
My sibling went to oxbridge. They loved it, a the traditions, balls, rag week etc. Totally fitted their personality.
I had the grades to apply and refused. Could think of nothing worse. I am very like your daughter. The studious, pressured atmosphere. The huge number of private school kids. The fact the Bullingdon Club still exists. All made me not want to go. Has I gone I would have hated and it not worked. In terms of lifelong prospects, my sister and I working in a very similar field, for very similar pay. She did marry a posher, richer man, but that would have always been the case!

If she gets in with the right/wrong crowd depending on your perspective on things she can have a lot of fun. Oxford is better suited for the more social

Its not nonsense, it's about double that of Manchester.

A lovely family member is a fellow at an Oxford college and deals with pastoral and is very clear it’s really not the right fit for everyone and some really struggle and in her view would have been far happier somewhere else. Credit to your Dd for realising this.

Mine was the same came back from the Cambridge outreach trip adamant there was no way she was going there! Currently having a ball at another RG university

I didn't mention private schools. The most stuck up Oxford graduate went to state school. You cannot possibly deny there is a certain elitist culture? Especially Oxford.

Another one saying your dd is right. I could have written your post a couple of years ago. Dd a high achiever predicted 3 A stars. Wouldn’t even consider it she just know it wouldn’t be for her.

She also wanted a big northern city. We are from Manchester and I do think where they’ve grown up can make a difference. Dd was used to having a big city and all its nightlife/ culture/ music on her doorstep. She ended up at Sheffield which was a mistake in hindsight as she’s found it too small. Lots of her friends love it but they are from small towns/ villages and love the city vibe where as dd is really looking forward to coming home.

She’s not crazy, she’s got her head screwed on. The most important thing is that she goes to a university where she has researched the degree being offered and believes that it will suit her.

Apart from the other people, Oxford is pressured and can be stressful, Can you take her to have a look around?

It’s her choice: she’s the one that will be going to university for 3 years.

My eldest went to Oxford 10 years ago - had A LOT of fun - tbh lockdown and online finals at home probably meant she got a 2:1 rather than a 2:2. I thought the tutorial system would be good for her (then undiagnosed) ADHD.

My son went to a Cambridge open day (with his older sister because I knew he'd push back too much if I took him) and didn't like it, thought it was "dead". (He didn't like the Oxford course for his subject - if it had been the Cambridge course and department in Oxford he would probably have been happy to go there if possible. They're very different cities.) He applied anyway, got an offer, turned it down and went to Manchester. Loved it, still lives there.

And my second daughter went to Newcastle, we all fell in love with the city. She took full advantage of the nightlife etc in her first year, and then was fairly boringly studious for her next 3 years 😁

I always tried to encourage my kids to keep options open. Joining the prep group doesn't commit her to anything. Going to an open day, even making an application doesn't commit her to anything. It's just another choice, but always better imo to make informed choices.

The head at my DC's school stated that he measured his success, not by how many students went to Oxbridge, but how many students got into their first choice uni.
He understood that Oxbridge is not for everyone, and that students should be comfortable in their choice.

My sibling went to oxbridge. They loved it, a the traditions, balls, rag week etc. Totally fitted their personality.

I can see that those sorts of things are a love/hate thing. Our open days were at a very traditional Oxford college. I remember current undergraduates talking excitedly about formal dinners and gowns and nothing put me off faster than that!

Thirty years on, I realise that a lot of that is very college specific but back then I don't think i really understood the whole college system.

I was capable but liked parties. I ended up leaving a levels after the first term and did a vocational btec. I then switched back to a HND uni and graduated from a notoriously fun mid range uni.
My career has been great in the field I am in. I now work with quite a few people who went to Oxbridge. I think if you are bright and ambitious it doesnt make much difference in many fields.
Except in some fields of course Oxbridge helps to get a foot in the door at a high pay for graduate level, such as law and finance and the networking advantage for certain careers is of course better if you go to certain unis.
What does she actually want to do as a career? Maybe look at paths and businesses she would target after uni, does Oxford give her the leg up in what she wants to do after?

I’m sorry but why do parents think they have a say in where their adult children go to do their education?

If a big northern city with clubbing is her scene, she really wouldn’t like Cambridge. Oxford possibly a bit more, but yes, people are very into their studies. I think she’s very wise to know what she wants.

What does she think of doing after university?

I was top in everything (except PE and art 😂) at my grammar school and absolutely refused to consider Oxbridge. Similar to your DD I thought many of the people would be really studious, but I also thought the rest would be private school snobs. I’ve never regretted my decision. YWBVU to try and talk her out of it, it’s her life and you shouldn’t try to control it.

@ArtichokeDip
As others have said, being smart enough to do something is only one element.

Knowing yourself and what you want during a given period of time in your life is emotional intelligence. Those who believe that choosing “less prestigious” educational settings or career mean that those people were not capable, are simply lacking in emotional intelligence. They believe that given a real possibility, no one could possibly turn it down, simply because of what it means
to them. This type of person tends to have a black and white viewpoint.

I have 2 children. Both are extremely intelligent but in different fields. Were we Uk based, one would have been perfect Oxbridge material, the other absolutely not.

I had loads of fun at Cambridge but as a previous poster said- it wasn’t cool!
Even coming from a small town I wasn’t impressed with the clubs but I had time for 2 sports, many socials, formal halls, bops etc.

Best time of my life. Met lots of different people from all backgrounds, worked hard, got a first, met my husband and friends for life.

My daughter (yr 9) has her sights set on it and I’ll do all I can to help her but I’ve made it clear it’s a bit of a lottery especially now and there are plenty of other places she’ll enjoy.

But if your dd is saying she doesn’t want to that’s completely valid. I would still encourage her to attend the preparation classes though as they will give her an edge with her general application and interviews.

Plenty of parties of all kinds. Not the best clubs, both small towns, but that’s compensated many times by the free college wine liberally offered for whatever sporting achievement, balls in the summer and garden parties and boating parties and parties at the college bar… Still some clubbing but it’s less of a focus than eg Leeds because there’s so much variety in how and where to get pissed. And there’s a whole range in terms of how hard people study. More support and student on average more engaged so the intellectual side is more satisfying imo, plenty of work needs done but it needn’t take over every minute. Go to a less famous college for a more down to earth experience and fewer posh boys (tho still more than you’d find in Leeds or Manchester). I’m with you — would encourage her to attend open days but let her decide ultimately what she wants. Also, does she have a career in mind? For certain competitive careers the networking at Oxbridge can make a difference — maybe matters more for English than stem subjects.

I agree with her and think it shows great maturity that she is weighing up all of the factors. I got through to the final pooling staged of Cambridge and was very disappointed not to get in, but also quite quickly felt relief that I would be able to go to a lower-pressure environment. I thrived academically at Bath and after an intensive A Level two years it was definitely a good choice for me!