DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

Her viewpoint is perfectly valid and her analysis is sound.

I was similar subjects and grades to your DD and applied to cambridge! I was devastated not to get in (honestly the grief over it ruined the rest of sixth form) but I ended up extremely happy at the big northern uni I went to. Great nightlife, lovely diverse people and a fantastic course, which i did really well in and ended up winning awards for academic achievements. I honestly thrived so much, made loads of friends (many of whom I still keep in touch with) and came out of my quiet, studious shell. No regrets. Your DD will by the sounds of things do very well wherever she goes!

Hmm, I wonder if they're exaggerating the party aspect to counter the stereotype that they're all work and no play. The terms are short and the workload is intense, with the tutorial system and the multiple essays per week and the exams at the start of term as well as at the end. It's famously intense, so I'm not sure I believe them!

As above she's got to want it.

Also, be aware that she may be exceptional for her school and is obviously very academically able. But there will be huge numbers of people applying with 10 or 11 x 9s at GCSE and 4 x a* at A-Level.

I’d recommend she has a good think about career paths for English Lit. grads & compares outcomes for Oxbridge v RG. Ultimately it’s her decision.

The pressure is quite intense in the short terms with a lot of deadlines for essays etc and reading to do outside. They do have a social life too

Interesting to see @Whyherewego day this from a current perspective as this is what I would have said about my experience 30 years ago. I really enjoyed it. But it wasn’t a party crowd. If that’s important to your DD, a big city university might well suit her better.

I would say to your point here op about job opportunities after uni, rather than depending on an Oxbridge degree, employers look for previous work experience.

Considering the degree subject your DD wants to do, I would also focus on what unis will support her well with career paths. For example, if she wants to get onto graduate schemes afterwards, there is a very hard maths test i could never pass after doing a language degree.

I think SHE really has to want it. DS is at Cambridge and was single minded about getting in very early on, making sure he had the right supercurriculars etc. He's doing a STEM subject so has very limited socialising opportunities due to the pressure and timetable - supervisions are often in the evening (I think he had an 8pm one last year). He did manage to row etc, but it's very full on and says that he's glad he's finishing this year and sometimes wishes he'd chosen somewhere slightly 'more fun'.

I suspect humanities subjects may be marginally less hectic (unfairly, the engineers do mock them for being part timers), but I do think that the drive has to come from the student. It's not for everyone and it's not the be all and end all - AND given how dire the jobs market is for grads currently (two of mine graduate this year), I don't think that it's the golden ticket it once was.

I think you are under the illusion that Oxbridge confers social and career advantage. My DH went to Cambridge and absolutely discouraged our kids from even looking at it. It has a narrow demographic of highly academic YP, many of whom actually struggle with the pressure when they are there as pastoral care is understood to be atrocious these days, and employers really are no longer impressed by it. In fact, due to blind recruiting now, those interviewing and filtering CVs are oblivious.

It is often negative perceived by colleagues in the work place. The modules are often very traditional - especially in English lit - so great if wanting to focus on Chaucer, Beowulf etc but less so if she is interested in post-colonial or more contemporary fields and genres within the subject. Other universities offer modules in novel to film adaptation, the contemporary novel form, publishing, feminist perspectives, creative writing theory etc which are not available at Cambridge. And if her heart is not in it, it will be telegraphed at interview and they won’t select her.

Much better to let your DC lead and chose a degree with content that appeals in a vibrant city where she feels she will find her people, than encourage her to waste an space on her UCAS form.

I think this is the bottom line. There is social life - it can be very active - but it is unlikely to be 'cool'.

My DC is at Imperial and I wish he was having more fun.

Your DD's reasons are perfectly valid. She doesn't want the high pressured academic life of Oxbridge.

For what it's worth my DD is a 2nd year English Lit student. She didn't want to apply to Oxford due to the course content (lot more focus on older English texts). She did go to a taster morning at Cambridge but it reinforced the views that your DD had - that it would be very high pressured and not what she wanted (and also that there was an extremely high volume of very intense studious people who she didn't necessarily want to surround herself with).

I'm glad she did the exploring but actually I didn't myself think that Oxbridge would suit her personality and way of working, although I would obviously have been happy to support her either way and am glad she made her own decision. Can I ask why you think your DD "should" consider it further, and if you are simply blinded by the reputation?

Personally I would encourage her to go to the classes because they’ll have useful info for applications to any uni she wants to go to and I think keeping your options open is a good idea. She can go see the unis and see if she changes her mind, if she doesn’t change her mind she doesn’t have to apply and but if she does at least she’s given herself the best chance of getting in.

English isnt the best degree to do unless she wants to teach

Ah ok, I’m not up to speed with how things are now. My sister went to Oxford and she sailed through GCSE and A-level with all A stars and put no effort in at all. I thought thats the only type of person that usually ends up going.

Just let her find her own way in life. DS chose not to go to uni and instead is at college. His happiness is paramount over some academic crusade.

I have lived and worked around the University all my life. Friends went there, friends teach there etc. Anyhow- I was thinking about it and the idea of a class at school with what she probably thinks are the boring people doesn’t sound amazing. Ask her to look on tik tok at the day in a life of an Oxbridge student, I think she’d be surprised. Although they are expected to study very hard and not usually allowed part time jobs due to study demand, the unis do have money to throw at ents, if you live in Oxford or Cambridge close to the city you’ll know how noisy it is in May with all the Balls. It’s worth considering for her also that Oxbridge is made up of about 70 separate collages, I am sure some of them are more suited to her than others.
That being said she sounds fabulous and I’m impressed she knows her own mind so well.

I know 2 incredibly high-achieving girls who applied to Oxford. They both achieved grade 9s in all GCSEs and then A* at A Levels. One of them gained the Dux award at her school. They both had Oxford interviews but neither were offered a place.

One was devastated and became overwhelmed by a sense of failure. The other one was relieved because she could sense the pressure would be huge.

I have a friend who went to Oxford and she said she went from being the big fish in a little pond at school, to being a teeny weeny fish in an ocean full of Super Fish at Oxford!

I think it is less “fun” and harder than other unis. All you can do is encourage her to be open minded if you’re worried there’s a chance she could regret it later, and suggest she goes to open days, but I think her reason is pretty valid. It’s a different type of uni experience both in terms of the uni bit and the city life.

I went to Cambridge, pushed by a parent. Let your DD forge her own path. It’s what I’m now doing with my own children.

Why push for Oxbridge if she doesn't want to go? Other universities may well be better for her subject and it's ultimately DD's decision. Not worth arguing about.

Or unless she loves English lit.

i think she is spot on. I was like your daughter a long time ago and although and maybe because, I had spent a lot of time at both, I went to a big northern uni and loved it. They were fun to visit but they were both attended by a fundamentally ambitious and studious cohort. They were also quite a naive or cosseted group in many ways. I don’t see that it has changed that much and I don’t regret the choices I made at all. I had a blast!

Just to correct some misconceptions though, dd has got an Oxford offer and her GCSE’s were 1 x 7 (but a year early), I think about 3 or 4 9s and the rest 8s. She did the standard number (9 or 10 with triple science I think) and one of them wasn’t a gcse but was a Cambridge level 2 qualification.

And I tried to put dd off as (a) I thought the chances of applying and being disappointed were very high, and (b) I thought she’d have more fun and a more rounded experience with less pressure at another uni. But she had her heart set on it.