DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

She sounds like my DD. Party girl that was A* all the way. Teacher encouraged her to apply to Oxbridge. She passed the Oxford tests, got through to interview day( stayed over at Keble College) but didn’t succeed. Luckily for her she wasn’t sure anyway but enjoyed the experience. She got the A Level grades anyway and went to Durham and had the time of her life and got a 1st.

Oxford grad here. Let your daughter lead; and if she is not drawn to the whole idea then leave it be.

Oxford and Cambridge do have a bit of a 'where fun goes to die' reputation but they also look good on your CV. It depends how ambitious she is and what career she wants.

If she wants to go to a Northern city let her. She'll likely have a great university experience. Oxford and Cambridge are not the apex of life, and don't suit everyone, even the most academic people. It's great that she is not a workaholic and wants a balance and knows herself. DD1 is very academic and didn't consider them as they don't offer the course she does and Sheffield is regarded as the number one place for it.

I was offered a place at Cambridge.
I went for the open day after my offer and hated the feel of it. Not my kind of people at all.

I instead took another offer from a Russell Group uni instead. I have never once regretted my decision.

Let your DD make her own decisions.

I was similar to your daughter (many moons ago!) and encouraged to apply to Oxford. Long story short, I got in, got my degree but frankly didn’t enjoy it that much and would have been much happier at a ‘normal’ uni. Wish I had been as sensible and independent as your daughter, sounds like she is making absolutely the right choice for her.

Totally up to her. Sounds like she likes a good time and has a good head on her shoulders - she will do well and forge her own path. Northern cities can be brilliant for uni for the nightlife. If this appeals to her, theres no way she will be happy in Oxford or Cambridge. Stand back and let her make her own choices OP.

You sound like a good mum. I agree with you I would encourage her to be more open minded.

I was capable of a much better uni than I attended but didn’t push myself for similar reasons your daughter has said and deeply regret it now - I would make sure she knows she is closing off an option and one that could prove to be very positive for her in future. I wish my mother had had any interest or even talked to me about these things & advocated for me in sixth form.

in your situation I would absolutely steer towards the best possible university for her level of intelligence.

Your dd is right.

My ds has just graduated from Oxford, and the workload is intense. He did have a great time, and did go out, but I'm talking 14 hours a day work, with a night out once a week at most.

Interesting. DS is a total party animal and I can promise you he and his friends partied hard at Cambridge.

He graduated three years ago so not ancient history.

I went to Oxford and I’m afraid to say I think she’s right.

If I had my time again, I would go to a ‘normal’ uni, then look at further study at Oxford/Cambridge after my initial undergrad. I think graduate life at Oxbridge is far preferable to undergrad life.

Erm.... no not valid.
The biggest party animals i know are ex oxbridge.

However I didnt apply or go because I "didnt want it"
I just wanted to coast after a levels

A refreshing thread on the topic of Oxbridge, normally mumsnetters worship Oxbridge.

Yous should feel very heartened about your dd being so social and wanting to enjoy university life. To succeed she needs good people skills over and above being bright.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8.

These are good GCSEs but not exceptional, sorry. Achievable for most bright and hard working dc.

I would be really impressed by your dd swing what she wants it's a great sign of maturity and determination.

Personally, I’m not sold on the idea of Oxbridge. While some alumni are exceptionally intelligent and go on to do very well professionally, the experience and culture aren’t necessarily the right fit for everyone. Some graduates don't amount much and have a huge chip on their shoulder ("but I went to Oxford") as with all places, the culture in these institutions don't necessarily bring out the best in everyone.

What other unis is she considering.

I was encouraged to go to oxbridge but even at 17 I knew it wasn't for me. Sounds like your daughter knows herself and that's great. Let her choose her future.

I'm with your DD. Oxbridge is mad. It's like a degree on steroids, and I think it very much suits a certain type. My exH got a double first in History at Cambs even when drunk much of the time, and it's because he's a true intellectual who read history for fun and approached the work as if it was a fun puzzle. He said he enjoyed it, and the pressure of it all didn't seem to affect him at all. Be aware that Oxford has exams at the beginning of every term, too! Brutal, absolutely brutal. There is nowhere to hide in the tutorial system, too. And short terms create pressure. I have difficulty believing that the students have anything approaching the kind of fun that students elsewhere have.

It's basically a souped-up, fast-lane way to get a degree for people who really enjoy that sort of extra challenge. There really is no need for it, unless you're the type who really wants that extra challenge. You will learn the same things and get an excellent education at a regular university, as long as it's a good one. I really do think that, for most people, it's much better to do it the regular way and live a much more normal uni life. If your daughter is a hedonist then she's right that it will not suit her.

You have to really want it, and she doesn't.

Sounds like she knows enough about what going there would entail to me. I got six offers and arguably three of those were better than the one I accepted but I don't think I would have stayed the distance at any of those three. I have no regrets.

There were plenty of people who partied a lot when I was at college. But the vibe was always that the clubbing scene in Cambridge wasn't very good and the clubs were a bit cringe worthy. You couldn't go out on Saturdays, seemingly, and as I scientist I had early lectures the other days. I think it was easier to adjust your week to fit it if you did an arts subject. I think Oxford is meant to have better clubs.

Extremely valid, respect her reasons. One of mine turned down Cambridge because they realised that it wouldn't be a good fit for them. They will probably think again after undergrad and put Oxbridge on their post grad list.

I was a smart kid and sailed through GCSEs and A Levels without much revision and a love of going out with friends. I went to Leeds Uni and did well too. If I'd have set my mind to studying, maybe I could have gone to Oxbridge. However, I feel I've had a good, balanced life with lots of fun memories and I didn't do too badly at all!

It's about different strategies - put all the effort and hard work in now and get a potential huge payout later (but perhaps still land a high pressure job and continue the hard work until early retirement), or put a good amount of effort in but also focus on having fun. Less financial reward down the line but then at least you spent your days having fun! You could get hit by a bus tomorrow as they say..!

What are her ambitions post uni, OP? Is her only criteria for university the presence of nightclubs? I assume not? Does she work hard enough at the moment to secure very high A level grades? Statistically, history is very hard to secure an A star.

I think there's a couple of bits to this. Joining the school Oxbridge programme doesn't mean that you need to apply or take up an offer if she gets one, but it would likely mean that she gets more support with her personal statement and also with interview prep (which she might have for one of the unis she wants to go to).

So I'd separate it out a bit, this is not a decision about whether to go to Oxbridge or not, it's a decision on whether to join a group to give more support on applications. Any actual decisions are much later.

It's a huge amount of pressure, with a much higher workload than most universities. Sounds like she wants more of a work life balance. Its to her credit that she understands that about herself.

My son reluctantly applied to Cambridge due to pressure from his school to do so. We were excited at the prospect of him possibly going to Cambridge but he told me that he didn’t want to go. He knew it wasn’t the right place for him.
He got through to interview and was relieved not to be offered a place!
He went to York, which was always his first choice, and thrived. Like your daughter, he made the most of the social side but worked hard too. Ended up with a brilliant degree, lifelong friends and the job he always wanted.

See, I'm not sure it sounds to be like she wants a work life balance but I may be reading her wrong! I think Oxbridge may be the wrong fit but she would also need to work hard to do well at Leeds.

The terms are very short and intense, but it sounds like your daughter has the smarts to handle that expected level of rigour and demands

Yes, but having 'the smarts' to handle it and wanting to handle it are two separate things!