I've tried .

[stillvicarinatutu]

I've really tried to engage in the fwr board but it's so hostile.

I really wanted to explore more but I just feel attacked whenever I speak my truth.

I don't know what came of the Caroline what's her name thread because I hid it . I really wanted to try and understand what was happening there and try to offer insight and engage from the perspective of a woman in the police .

But I just can't get through the "your all bastards , Wayne cousins, watching me , agenda , trans rights , you're all bastards cos some forces are talking bollocks stuff .

I agree with most of everything but when I'm trying to engage and proffer my support all I get is you behaved badly because you said police should patrol at nigth and have the audacity to LOOK at a woman out at night . The. WC gets brought up like the majority of the police force men and women are some physical threat - when he was the absolute definition of exception not the rule.

I get insulted time and time again and I still tried . It's just turned me off the whole topic because no one will actually talk rationally with me .
And if I ask why all I will get is sulky replied about how police are all shit with some anti feminist agenda when I work in a drive that has never ever had that agenda - no stonewall training , no lanyards with rainbows or cars with stickers - yet when I say this is not my experience while respecting it may be yours - I get told I must be a man .

Last night I posted in a thread and asked what is the issue with police patrolling at night and looking at people who are out ?

Result : your behaved badly . You said it wasn't an issue . You said that's what police are meant to do . (It is actually! Police patrol at night because that's when most crime happens like burglary and car crime )

The reason I'm posting before anyone says something really witty like do t let the door hit your arse on the way out
Is because I wanted to engage and be included in chats that involve women . No
Matter what their job is . I have no trans agenda - I have always said and always believed you are born with either an x or a Y chromosome and that determines your skeletal frame , and your sex . And that cannot be changed.
I'm horrified by the tales here of thought police and wrong think .
I'm in that job and I could actually raise this . The more I learned the more ridiculous it seemed . But I can't even talk about it without jibes or civility.
The fwr board is really really hostile . As a woman I feel unwelcome to even discuss anything .
This will cause more offence and a round of fuck offs. But I really wanted to learn what the issues were around fwr and policing . Its like an exclusive club that no one can gain entry to unless you absolutely comply with the narrative- and I don't even know what it is !
I really wanted to try and understand and learn and possibly - possibly try to raise some of the issues from within .

Anyway - please please don't pile on - this is constructive criticism.
And I won't engage . I've hidden the fwr board now because I don't feel I can be included or add anything of value .

Please don't prove me right by being vindictive or abusive .

I just wanted to learn , help , engage.

I really wish you luck in what ever you hope to achieve .

Ok seriously I'd say no and let them try to argue that in court.

It wouldn't stand .

can you actually refuse a search?

No . Bit I'd ask for a Biological female to search me as a biological female. Can't see how that could be refused.

Police do t have a union . It's illegal for us .

We have the federation. Who are toothless tigers .

As ridiculous as it sounds, I think there’s a lot of fear about this stuff right now - because of the type of thing that’s happening to Caroline Farrow - stuff that just sounds ridiculous but then actually seems to proceed.

But you know the rules. You know how to speak up.

Imagine you are a teenager, your friend was shoplifting and you were with them so you are both arrested.

You are a good kid who cannot believe this is happening, you are told you are going to be searched. Do you know you can refuse?

Maybe you do refuse, you are then told you have committed a hate crime, but they can just give you a caution, it will be wiped when you turn 18 and you can go home now.

I've come across several teenagers who have been told cautions are wiped at 18.

It’s really interesting to hear about how it might be behind the scenes, thank you!

I thought for a moment I was looking at bake off presenter with this article… www.itv.com/news/central/2021-10-12/transgender-police-officer-skye-morden-speaks-out-over-torrents-of-online-abuse

Juvenile cautions are wiped at 18 . But I get your point .

This is why anyone ever arrested for anything needs legal representation. It's a right in law and offered at custody- always say yes .

Overamour

I also thought that 😂. Then read it .

Thems the breaks . To that officer . Yep .

🤣🤣🤣

Thing is - want to identify as trans - fine .

Want to identify as trans in a job where I can actually impact female born women ? Or men ?
Nope . Not right .

There had to surely be some common sense applied ? We can't just pander to being politically correct all the Damon time to the detriment of half the bloody population?

I'm really lucky in that my force has had no affiliation to stonewall et al. Really lucky . I couldn't subscribe to this . And I wouldn't .

My thoughts .

You are born male or female . X or Y chromosome. That determines your skeletal frame , your strength , how you carry body fat , whether you can be pregnant or not. That's a fact . You ar born male or female . It's biological. No changing that . It's fact . For me - how can it be regarded a hate speech to speak fact ? It can't .
I'm happy to advise anyone who has been accused of speaking hate while stating fact . I'm well up on mal comms . I shit most down that come to me because there is a definition in law - I adhere to it . Speaking the truth can not be construed as mal comms .

They are now, but they were not always.

I agree . I'm not absolutely sure what's happening to Caroline - but I have out tow and two together. I could probably advise . I have the very definition of mal comms stuck to my desktop. It's surely an offence that's made out . The "grossly offensive " bit is defined in law - did you know that ?

To make the offence of mal comms out it has to be :
Directed at a person or directed I. Such a way the person is likely to see it
Contain content that co tai s a threat, that's indecent, grossly offensive or false .

That's the legal definition.

If anyone finds themselves on the receiving end of action and for something that does not fit that criteria- don't accept it . Challeng it . And I would be happy to help .

And "grossly offensive " is t a definition that means you are personally affronted by it .

Offending anyone isn't t illegal.

Grossly offensive is defined as being so offensive that any reasonable person would also be offended by the content -
Saying men are men is a fact . Not in anyway a mal comms .

I really get angry at this madness that is being accepted by some forces when it doesn't even fit the legal definition.

I am a mouthy cow - I am . I've learned to be . But I'm happy to
Help here in any way I can.

I really want to be able to post , engage but also say how it is for me within the "job"

Thank you to all for replying to me here without being hostile. I do genuinely appreciate it. And yes I'm listening.

I'd already listened to the pcso recording and I'd said on another thread- the woke police one - totally totally overreaching and out of order . Embarrassing.

But that's the thread I really did feel attacked on and kept getting called a man etc . It is hard not to take that personally but I appreciate that there is a lot of I'll will now because police seem to be not that impartial. And impartial is exactly what police should be! It's weird - I find it hard because on the one hand I do want to defend myself and the good officers I know and on the other I get it .
I think now That police upper echelons care more about being seen to be politically correct than adhering to the very black and white laws of the land .
I have a friend who was wrongly accused of something within the job - they will never ever come back . They gave a lot to the job and that one accusation without any foundation ruined their life for a good while . They've been exonerated but they cannot get over how they were not listened to while the other party was . There is no help for us anymore you know ? The command teams are more worried about their image than the truth . And the boots on the ground suffer for that while trying to do a bloody difficult job.
I have to stop and think sometimes why do I defend "the job " - answer is because most people are just like me - trying their best and it's like pushing treacle uphill for the cops on response , for CiD , and the people doing the work . The "woke" stuff is the remit of the higher up....they worry about the image . And they're getting it so so wrong - but they won't be told . Being politically correct is far more important and newsworthy.

I can tell you are listening @stillvicarinatutu .

So what next?

You mentioned focus groups.

Could you write an article about your 'rough ride' here over the past week? I don't know if there is a force or police journal and if there is would you be able to be anonymous?

No my love there isn't in the sense that anyone can contribute and I do have to be a little careful about being outed .....

I will however be raising these issues because we do have a very able woman chief constable . She is very much wanting to focus on women and how they feel - particularly after the WC incident. I actually really do like her .

I could actually ask . I could suggest it . I'm pretty sure she would listen but there are also quite weird guidelines on social
Media use (Mumsnet is classed as social
Media ) and I've had two warnings previously about my postings on here ....nothing generic my ex stalked me - and reported me for stuff that was about our relationship.

There are a number of focus groups that I can participate in- and I will . I will raise these issues.

Well if there is any way I can support you with this let me know.

I feel a bit like you have been turned into a 'double agent' maybe your user name should be Vicar007?

I would actually like to write an article . I will look into that - we have a force magazine.
I aren't sure they would want to focus on our negative image though - but it is newsworthy.

If I could - if I could write something for the magazine- what is the message that women would want to convey ? Bear in mind it's fluffy - can't outright say trans agenda is making a fool of us . But I'd like to highlight this .

I don't know if any officer in my force who is trans . But I'm guessing the big wigs would be wary on anything that could be construed as negativity.

😂. Vicar 007 . I like. Do I have a license to thrill? (Sadly I fear I wouldn't thrill anyone these days unless they like menopausal 50 year old women ) 🤷🏻‍♀️

On Monday I will email out media bods.

So - tell me what we need to hear . I'll take it up.

I do think our lady chief gets some of this - she sent a message out saying women have had enough of violence and it will not be tolerated.
She's quite good