I've tried .

[stillvicarinatutu]

I've really tried to engage in the fwr board but it's so hostile.

I really wanted to explore more but I just feel attacked whenever I speak my truth.

I don't know what came of the Caroline what's her name thread because I hid it . I really wanted to try and understand what was happening there and try to offer insight and engage from the perspective of a woman in the police .

But I just can't get through the "your all bastards , Wayne cousins, watching me , agenda , trans rights , you're all bastards cos some forces are talking bollocks stuff .

I agree with most of everything but when I'm trying to engage and proffer my support all I get is you behaved badly because you said police should patrol at nigth and have the audacity to LOOK at a woman out at night . The. WC gets brought up like the majority of the police force men and women are some physical threat - when he was the absolute definition of exception not the rule.

I get insulted time and time again and I still tried . It's just turned me off the whole topic because no one will actually talk rationally with me .
And if I ask why all I will get is sulky replied about how police are all shit with some anti feminist agenda when I work in a drive that has never ever had that agenda - no stonewall training , no lanyards with rainbows or cars with stickers - yet when I say this is not my experience while respecting it may be yours - I get told I must be a man .

Last night I posted in a thread and asked what is the issue with police patrolling at night and looking at people who are out ?

Result : your behaved badly . You said it wasn't an issue . You said that's what police are meant to do . (It is actually! Police patrol at night because that's when most crime happens like burglary and car crime )

The reason I'm posting before anyone says something really witty like do t let the door hit your arse on the way out
Is because I wanted to engage and be included in chats that involve women . No
Matter what their job is . I have no trans agenda - I have always said and always believed you are born with either an x or a Y chromosome and that determines your skeletal frame , and your sex . And that cannot be changed.
I'm horrified by the tales here of thought police and wrong think .
I'm in that job and I could actually raise this . The more I learned the more ridiculous it seemed . But I can't even talk about it without jibes or civility.
The fwr board is really really hostile . As a woman I feel unwelcome to even discuss anything .
This will cause more offence and a round of fuck offs. But I really wanted to learn what the issues were around fwr and policing . Its like an exclusive club that no one can gain entry to unless you absolutely comply with the narrative- and I don't even know what it is !
I really wanted to try and understand and learn and possibly - possibly try to raise some of the issues from within .

Anyway - please please don't pile on - this is constructive criticism.
And I won't engage . I've hidden the fwr board now because I don't feel I can be included or add anything of value .

Please don't prove me right by being vindictive or abusive .

I just wanted to learn , help , engage.

I really wish you luck in what ever you hope to achieve .

Sorry just been distracted by the biggest bloody spider running towards the bed - shoved the toothbrush holder on him and his legs were sticking out 🙈. He's now under the shed with the zillion others I've put out this bloody week.....

OOOO so many issues.

I think first and foremost is the rainbow lanyards / cars / hats etc. They are a political symbol. I don't want to see rainbows if I call the police, if I see that lanyard or pronouns I feel scared. I do not think I will be listened to, I do not think I can be honest, it tells me your beliefs are to prioritise men in dresses rather than victims.

Maybe looking at the way police have been used to bully people, in particular women, my experience wasn't reported by a trans woman but it was absolutely using the police to bully me and to try to get me sacked.

There are things on the two threads, they are in the public domain.

Maybe, "Why women see the police as another oppressor?"

I also think, if you can talk to some retired women police. Until the late 1970s there were separate women's and men's forces. When they amalgamated, they actually didn't, the women were moved on to the men's force.

All the skills and experience that the women's force had was just thrown away.

Ok - I totally get that the only thing is my force doesn't t have rainbow lanyards or car stickers or stonewall training- they are actually not on their list of accredited organisations (thank the fucking lord ) so while I could speak generally about that it's not something that our force has encountered.....(again thank the fucking lord). Our chief is really open to womens issues within the police and has sent a good number of force wide emails out in the very subject of violence against women . I guess I could feed back that those forces who have adopted this stance are mistrusted.

I keep having to rescue Webster from the bath. He's in there so often I gave him a name. Although it might be female.

That's actually very relevant- I have a mate who retired 10 years ago - absolutely no nonsense type . She wanted to be referred to as WPC to the day she left .

Put her under my shed she's have a good few suitors !

The lanyards are a bit like a swastika, for many a symbol of 'well being' and perfectly normal in India.

But in Europe it is different.

The symbol itself is not the problem, the changes in its use and politicization is the problem.

I agree .
The police should not be affiliated to any groups. We should be seen as totally neutral. It is something I will raise . I feel our chief would agree .

Amazing @stillvicarinatutu ! Raise it, and be a coherent voice for women’s rights within the force.

We need you, and many more who are also willing to stick up for women.

I thought your Police Federation was quite tough, they used to give the Home Secretary of the day a rough ride at their conferences - do they still have a conference and does the Home Secretary still attend?

Your Chief Constable presumably attends conferences/meetings with other Chief Constables, could you maybe prime her to bring up the reasons why the general public and women in particular are fast losing faith and trust in the Police? The politicisation of the Police is a major reason why - the Police must be and be seen to be politically neutral and allying with a political lobby group such as Stonewall and then rainbow washing itself is a massive problem. The Forces that are and do this never fly any flags for any other of the protected characteristics in the EqA nor any other minority groups.

Surely they should be neutral?

I would say it is absolutely possible for you to engage on the FWR boards but (and this isn't a criticism or accusation) don't go "As a policewoman..." and expect instant deference and respect that your opinion and experience is more important than everyone else's or you will probably be disappointed.

That doesn't mean I hate the police or think all police are terrible people or doing a terrible job - far from it I assure you. But as academics will tell you conceptions of what is and crucially isn't a crime and which crimes are worthy of police resources to investigate and for want of a better word 'police' and prosecute is a highly politicised and often highly biased process. (For clarity the type of bias I'm talking about is way above your pay grade, going upto and including how laws are phrased and passed).

And in my lifetime women have consistently been getting the muddy end of the stick - hence frustration, but please don't take it personally.

OP, you sound like a really decent person who is based in a place where the police behave reasonably well and take their responsibilities seriously.

If you spend a bit of time just reading the Feminism sex and gender board you will become aware that you are very unusual.

Many women have become very disillusioned and have lost faith in the police generally. There is plenty of evidence on that board as to why that is.

I spent a lot of time reading there before I ever posted anything. It has been an education. As a result I have donated to various legal cases, written to my MP, signed petitions and so on. The only charities I give to now are those that help women and children. There are very few of those around and a lot of research is required to establish their credentials.

Give it a go and ask questions.

I can’t comment on your individual circumstances, but my personal experience (and that of many others) is that having your arse handed to you the first time you venture into FWR is a right of passage. There are women there who’ve been discussing this stuff for so long, that any nuance a newbie tries to introduce is something they’ve seen and heard a thousand times before, and have already considered and come to a rational response. I waltzed in, was taken apart, almost ran, but then stuck around because I could see there was something going on that I didn’t fully understand yet.

As for extremist posters saying that state institutions are all repressive and are against women’s rights (or whatever it was) they are surely the exception, rather than the rule. I think there are lots of us here who don’t think that way, and (in my opinion) those who do are the kind of women who drive ordinary women away from feminism.

So maybe it’s worth giving it some cooling off time, then stepping back in a little more slowly. FWR needs different perspectives. It’s certainly good to have it confirmed that the entire UK force are not all Stonewalled to the hilt. I had assumed that would be the case, but good to hear it from the horse’s mouth.

exactly our point. Men's feelings matter, I just can't agree that men's feelings matter more than women's in every situation.

@stillvicarinatutu "it looks like they are fetishising rather than genuinely transgender." yup do feel free to pm me if you figure out a definition or description for "genuinely transgender".

It feels like rules of misogyny #8 "Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are."

and women are being asked to believe that no man could ever lie, no man could ever pose a threat to women and girls, and crucially no man who posed a threat could ever make statements or undertake a course of action which would give him access to his preferred victims and enough social capital to get away with stuff - this is REALLY not consistent with the scandals and upheavals I have lived through; (catholic priests, missionaries and aid workers, teachers, headteachers, social workers, mps, even on occasion police officers ).

So yeah stay please, and talk ask questions. And if someone is 'too far gone' in their distrust of the police, don't argue or take it personally as you yourself said "you are not the police".

Equally there isn't a lot we all agree on. But the fact that it should be the job of teachers to emotionally support their students and keep them feeling happy and safe not vice versa seems a good place to start.

Mens feelings should matter more .

My question if that "woman " wanted to search me in custody would be "and do you have a penis ? Did you ever ? Because I didn't . That's what makes me a woman . "
I have no ill will to any individual. But I wouldn't be comfortable with this. And saying so should be ok .

Ffs shouldnt matter more . I hate this phone !

stillvicarinatutu · Today 01:56
"And no - if that man attempted to search me as a woman I'd be requesting someone else . Not a fucking chance mate !
I don't care what the bloody politics are . That's a man . He wouldn't get to search me . Fuck off !
Being searched in custody is hard enough as it is . And I really do t care what the offence is - you could be a female terrorist- don't care . He wouldn't be searching me . Bollocks to that" .

Unfortunately if you try the above in Scotland, where they have self ID, you would probably be accused of misgendering/hate crime and get arrested for that.

The. That needs challenging legally in Scotland . There would surely be a civil rights lawyer willing to take that on . Because I can see no
Argument ever to allow a biological man to conduct searches and intimate searches of a woman . That needs a legal
Challenge.

There might be no ulterior motive at all - but that risk that there could be - that should be enough to refuse. That it could be a man self I'd as a woman to get their rocks off is enough reason for me to not allow that . You a trans person wanted to challenge that I would be asking why .

if a trans person not you .

OP, have you been following all the legal challenges, court cases, tribunals that have been going on? In each and every case the woman/victim has had to raise funds by asking for donations from other women. The men persecuting the women get lots of money from dubious organisations. It is an absolute uphill battle.

You can find all the information on the sex and gender discussion board.