I've tried .

[stillvicarinatutu]

I've really tried to engage in the fwr board but it's so hostile.

I really wanted to explore more but I just feel attacked whenever I speak my truth.

I don't know what came of the Caroline what's her name thread because I hid it . I really wanted to try and understand what was happening there and try to offer insight and engage from the perspective of a woman in the police .

But I just can't get through the "your all bastards , Wayne cousins, watching me , agenda , trans rights , you're all bastards cos some forces are talking bollocks stuff .

I agree with most of everything but when I'm trying to engage and proffer my support all I get is you behaved badly because you said police should patrol at nigth and have the audacity to LOOK at a woman out at night . The. WC gets brought up like the majority of the police force men and women are some physical threat - when he was the absolute definition of exception not the rule.

I get insulted time and time again and I still tried . It's just turned me off the whole topic because no one will actually talk rationally with me .
And if I ask why all I will get is sulky replied about how police are all shit with some anti feminist agenda when I work in a drive that has never ever had that agenda - no stonewall training , no lanyards with rainbows or cars with stickers - yet when I say this is not my experience while respecting it may be yours - I get told I must be a man .

Last night I posted in a thread and asked what is the issue with police patrolling at night and looking at people who are out ?

Result : your behaved badly . You said it wasn't an issue . You said that's what police are meant to do . (It is actually! Police patrol at night because that's when most crime happens like burglary and car crime )

The reason I'm posting before anyone says something really witty like do t let the door hit your arse on the way out
Is because I wanted to engage and be included in chats that involve women . No
Matter what their job is . I have no trans agenda - I have always said and always believed you are born with either an x or a Y chromosome and that determines your skeletal frame , and your sex . And that cannot be changed.
I'm horrified by the tales here of thought police and wrong think .
I'm in that job and I could actually raise this . The more I learned the more ridiculous it seemed . But I can't even talk about it without jibes or civility.
The fwr board is really really hostile . As a woman I feel unwelcome to even discuss anything .
This will cause more offence and a round of fuck offs. But I really wanted to learn what the issues were around fwr and policing . Its like an exclusive club that no one can gain entry to unless you absolutely comply with the narrative- and I don't even know what it is !
I really wanted to try and understand and learn and possibly - possibly try to raise some of the issues from within .

Anyway - please please don't pile on - this is constructive criticism.
And I won't engage . I've hidden the fwr board now because I don't feel I can be included or add anything of value .

Please don't prove me right by being vindictive or abusive .

I just wanted to learn , help , engage.

I really wish you luck in what ever you hope to achieve .

[stillvicarinatutu]

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I work with police constables on the degree apprenticeship. It's been interesting and has given me a different perspective on how hard it can be for police.
I've also seen some brilliant essays from a very well-informed feminist perspective by some of them.

I would agree that most are pretty decent sorts.

My area isn't really going in for the trans-agenda-above-all-else stuff either, thankfully.

When I worked in Scotland, police worked hand in hand with rape crisis and women's aid and helped to ensure some really vulnerable women got support.

I think it's easy to dismiss a whole group of people, but it usually isn't very helpful.

I'm glad I get to have a bit of input into training and that I get a bit of an insight in return.

That's so encouraging! I've also worked with rape crisis andi loved it . It was the most insightful, enlightening thing I've ever done . I too a lot away with me .

[stillvicarinatutu]

@WalkthisWayUK

I can roll in breadcrumbs and identify as a fishfinger but it doesn't alter what I was born as ha ha made me laugh

. I'm here all week!
Thank you to those who are talking to me I feel slightly better about trying to post in the fwr bosrd now actually. It's quite nerve wracking! And I can totally see how informed , intelligent and fed up the women are on there - it's just felt a bit like the lions den when posting from the perspective of a woman - but in a job that's regarded with suspicion. I'm genuinely wanting to learn what the issues are - I sign up
For every soundboard there is in policing- I'm a gobshite basically . We do have lots of voluntary focus groups within the police . And we have a womens branch of the fed . There's a lot for women in policing. That's why I want to talk about these things - I can take feedback and use it . To help !

[PinkPrettyAndPointed]

I recognise your name, have been on here myself over 10 years.

But you are defensive, you are used to be listened to, having some authority, because you're the police. Why should anyone care that you're trying to engage? I mean that in the nicest way.

If we all started threads like this when our opinions were ridiculed, or ignored, on here MN would be a boring place to be!

For now you should read the posts, understand where others are coming from.

Don't try to change OUR opinions of the police. Try to change YOUR opinions on Jane Public. You don't get to cruise past a woman, multiple times, late at night because 'you're doing your job'.

[stillvicarinatutu]

@PinkPrettyAndPointed

I recognise your name, have been on here myself over 10 years.

But you are defensive, you are used to be listened to, having some authority, because you're the police. Why should anyone care that you're trying to engage? I mean that in the nicest way.

If we all started threads like this when our opinions were ridiculed, or ignored, on here MN would be a boring place to be!

For now you should read the posts, understand where others are coming from.

Don't try to change OUR opinions of the police. Try to change YOUR opinions on Jane Public. You don't get to cruise past a woman, multiple times, late at night because 'you're doing your job'.

Ok . Thanks .
But I do have to speak from a perspective of doing a job that many people have little understanding of. Patrolling at night is part of this job and if that makes people feel uncomfortable it's unfortunate but it is a part of catching criminals . My ex dh is a baker - walked to work at 3am . He was always getting stopped by police asking to check his bag . He always said fill your boots because it has his pack up and his work gear in - no biggie . But for every innocent person asked what there doing out at 3am (of which I'm one often hence the posting time ) there are 5 ner do wells who are up
To no good - trying car doors , etc etc . I'm on a community fb forum and the number of posts woth cctv now showing g people trying car doors etc - and they all say "and where we're the police !" We don't have crystal balls . We don't know who's good and who's bad . That's why we talk to people , drive about , watch .
We are very much damned either way . I get cruising past someone could be unnerving- but equally police do people watch - and be nosey . It is part of the job - it's uniquely seen as bad if we do that and bad if we don't if that person is later bandied about on fb from peoples ring doorbells trying car doors .....it's an incredibly fine and difficult line to walk . Not many people are out at 3am and since most acquisitive crime happens at night it stands to reason that you may be watched , or stopped and questions asked . It really is just part of being a police officer. Trying to catch real criminals and baddies - who most law abiding people do y have experience of .

[sashh]

It bothers me that there are now younger recruits coming through without even a basic understanding of spelling or grammar - let alone the law .

Check your own before criticizing others.

Vicar, a lot of us have negative experiences of the police. Personally I have had several encounters with police, from different forces, abusing their power and I'm a law abiding 56 (almost) disabled woman. I don't even have, and have never had points on my licence.

There was the huge issue with my arrest. Staffordshire police.

There was the time I was pulled over at night, and the two officers who pulled me over said they could smell alcohol so called for back up who arrived in riot gear then a third car stopped in case they needed help.

I blew 0 on the breathalyser. Lancashire police.

Then there was the time I stopped because a car in front of me was being pushed out of the way. The taxi behind me started beeping the horn, I put my hands up to show it wasn't me, I had no idea this was a police officer until he pulled out his warrant card and threatened to arrest me.

I complained and I was told by his superior he had perhaps been a little over enthusiastic, I had done nothing but stop my car to allow someone to push theirs out of the way. West Midlands police.

I had a brick put through m window, I was told by the police that I should do the same to the person who did it to me. Lancashire police again.

Unsurprisingly I did not get a lot of sleep that night so the next night I went to bed early, when I answered the phone to another police officer and said I'd been asleep he laughed and called out tot he room, "have you heard this? She's in bet at 8pm" Lancashire.

Someone attempting to kick my door down and 'F'ing twat you', I was asked what I had done to provoke them. They called me at 9am to see if I was OK.
West Midlands police.

Discussion of MVAW and an officer referred to it as a 'Domestic', Devon and Cornwall police.

There are others.

I grew up in the north on England, I remember the Yorkshire ripper investigation. It was a farce. They dismissed the testimony of women who had been attacked and survived because they said the attacker had a Yorkshire accent.

Not just one, but multiple women, they were told it wasn't the ripper. They referred to the victims as prostitutes or 'innocent' as if prostitutes are guilty.

Yes that was a long time ago but have things really changed?

[stillvicarinatutu]

Ok ssssh but that's NOT me . Take me as I am . I'm not "the police "
I'm Vicarinatutu . Not every shit
Cop out there . I try really hard to
Do my best for people both here and in rl.

I can't answer your ills against police. But should I be traders with disdain and mistrust because of those people ? Or should I be given a chance to engage and chat and see if I'm different and if I could help ?

[sashh]

Yes Vicar, I know it's not you, but what do you think I feel when I see the uniform?

Can you understand why I don't feel safe?

[stillvicarinatutu]

That's what I'm trying to say - I as a poster here am not just a uniform.

[stillvicarinatutu]

I can give a perspective of a woman wearing that uniform . And I can only be me . I do t lost here as pc xxxx . I am open about what I do - but that's just in order to help people.

[stillvicarinatutu]

And I am robust and I do struggle to understand why people- women - don't feel safe . But I have been a victim of abuse - as a child , in a relationship, and I still can't understand why the uniform engenders fear because my experience of police is so different from yours - that's not to say you are wrong and I really strive to understand - I'm not unsympathetic to those who now fear police . That's your experience and I'm not belittling that . I'm trying to engage as a woman , as a mother , as a police officer . To take on board what the fears are - even if I feel there unfounded in most of society. I'm the least threatening person that could be wearing this uniform. I'm just me - a mum to an autistic adult , a person with loads of life experience that helps me be the best police officer and woman I can be . I'm really sorry your experience has been so bad . But that's not me . And that's not what I see on a daily basis . And that's why I'd like to talk to other women here and try to get their perspective and also try to show something of the job itself if it helps .

[stillvicarinatutu]

I'm engaged with focus groups in my force - if I can say that women are really afraid of us - and why - that can only help ?

[sashh]

Yes to focus groups. Take my experiences here, and those from the other thread. Actually ask on the other thread, some might not want to share.

[stillvicarinatutu]

I hid the other thread .

I'm afraid I got sick of defending myself on these boards when being called a man and referred to as "he" persistently, and shouted down whenever I tried to post - not in that particular thread but I have felt it very difficult to engage and felt im regarded with suspicion and women won't talk to me other than to say how shite we all are ....
It's hard to keep trying to chat . And I have little understanding of what the trans issue is - clearly there is some undercurrent and some trans wo(men) using police
To their own gain . But I've no knowledge of that . I don't have a Twitter account. I have no social
Media . So I'm completely out of the loop .

[CrossStichQueen]

Hello Vicar

I have read this thread and your posts on the one you have hidden and I agree with others when they say maybe lurke for a while before posting.

You will disagree with me I am sure but it was the defensive and dismissive way you posted which resulted in the responses you got.
It's obvious you are proud of the job you do and while there are many bad apples within the force you appear not to be one of them which is fantastic but....that doesn't mean you have the right to be dismissive of the experiences of others just because you or your force do not behave that way.
You won't change people's minds by denying their experiences, telling them they are wrong and should not talk about their fear of the police or lack of confidence. Which is exactly what you did.
You then came in here to basically whinge to women about the mean girls on the other board....not a good look in my view.

I have the misfortune of being in West Yorkshire who's forces track record of dealing with women and children and the crimes that are committed against us is well shit. I also have personal experience of their policing and have no faith in this force at all.

The FWR boards are one of the few places women can talk openly with each other and given that we must walk a very fine line at all times due to the constant reports, constant name calling, constant threats its no suprise that when a "newcomer" wanders in and basically tells women off for wrong think it's not taken well.
Instead of blaming women for their negative opinion about the police maybe you should accept that they have good reason either due to personal experience or because of the way the police have treated CF or KJK and others over the last few years simply because they refuse to be bullied by men.

In my view this thread comes across as you feeling you deserve to be fawned over because you are a good police officer and how dare other people disagree with you about the police.

As I said at the beginning you will no doubt disagree with me and probably say I am one of the mean girls from the other board but that's your perogative.

[sashh]

@CrossStichQueen

On the subject of 'bad apples' people seem to have forgotten the actual phrase is, "one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel".

So no organisation should tolerate and 'bad apples'.

@stillvicarinatutu

I think you should have a look at social media, you don't need to post. The image is a police officer, they thought this was a good photo to announce they are now a woman. Can't you see how that could be interpreted as scary?

The same officer was given an award for being a 'good role model' .

Seriously would YOU want to be strip searched by this person?

Try this www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-tweet-police-acted-unlawfully

Then have a listen tot eh recording made by a woman of a PCSO who went to her home and told her to 'educate yourself' for a sticker saying something like "men are not women". twitter.com/IXthoth/status/1558864568427896832

Or the lesbians the police in Cardiff stopped marching at pride because they had a sign saying, 'lesbians don't do dick'. At the same march a man with 'Kill all terfs' was apparently fine.

Follow the various police forces, including your own, follw 'fair cop' and see what comes up.

You have an opportunity here to be the voice of women in your force, but you have to believe people's experiences.

Sussex police tweeted

“Hi, Sussex Police do not tolerate any hateful comments towards their gender identity regardless of crimes committed. This is irrelevant to the crime that has been committed and investigated. Sussex Police.”

When someone pointed out the 'woman' who committed crimes against children was a man and identified as such at the time of his crimes.

[CrossStichQueen]

Sashh I have seen that photo a dozen times and each time it makes me jolt?
As in my brain goes that man looks psychotic but the words say they are a woman.

[sashh]

@CrossStichQueen

That person is in my local force.

It is chilling. That person though is, by the admission of the senior offices 'brave' for this.

The photo was, I believe taken by the local newspaper, so I do think we maybe have the photographer to thank that that was the image used.

@stillvicarinatutu

More reading for you

www.lbc.co.uk/news/trans-police-officers-who-were-born-male-but-identify-as-female-can-search-women/

Then this - some people tweeted about Skye - counter terrorism probe launched.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/10/13/counter-terrorism-trans-police-officer-online/

[Dammitthisisshit]

Only you can decide if you leave the board, or if you take a break for a bit, or just lurk more. I very much hope you stay with us. We need people like you. I’m sorry for the ferocity of some comments directed towards you. From what I can see they’re directed at the overarching police commissions in general, not you personally, but I understand it must be very hard to work in and support a service you don’t see like that and your insight is extremely valuable.

I’m predominately a lurker with staunchly GC beliefs and support the JKs and Mayas of this world. But I actually have good memories of police looking out for me in my 20s. I agree there have been some police atrocities but it’s not all police and the moment we band everyone in the same camp we lose very valuable allies. There are some forces that have been shown to have systemic sexism though, and that does need to be routed out and stopped somehow. Yet it can feel like an impossible task, which I think is where the ferocity of comments comes across, especially as some posters have been wronged by those forces.

But I’m so happy when I see people in organisations that are aligned to GC thinking as that’s how things will change and we need to recognise that we’re dealing with individuals who aren’t responsible for everything their overarching organisation has done. In the same way I know some social workers have made what I consider to be terrible decisions on some trans children cases, yet I discuss GC beliefs with a social worker friend who has to be very careful what she says in her job but is fully aligned with GC thinking and would never allow any cases she influences to go that way.

we need you all, all of you walking the tightrope in your jobs and bringing logic into what you do. Thankyou 💐

[picklemewalnuts]

One thing influencing the difference in your perspective from ours, Tutu, is knowing a load of police mates you know as nice.

Most people know the odd police person they find nice enough, and the odd one who's an arse- just like in all professions.

When a police car slows right down and hovers behind you, you'll be wondering if it's Gary or Sarah driving today.
If you are from a really small area, even ordinary residents will be of the same mindset- I wonder if that's Betty's son?
You'll see them as a sign there is law and order on the streets, and be glad they are out there keeping you safe.

The rest of us, not so much.
It's a car, with people in it, who are more likely to be men and (therefore more likely to be predatory), and it's prowling around me. That's something I need to be defensive about.

I'm supportive of the police in principle, and don't judge their low response rate on anything except poor funding. I work within the local systems, reporting to the neighbourhood wardens and going to beat meetings etc.
I've no time at all for wasting resources on people who don't like hearing different opinions the truth. That's ridiculous, and offensive in these straitened times.

Hang around. You'll get the hang of it. Don't expect to be treated as an authority on police, as between them the huge number of women here have an enormous range of experience.
You are the authority on the police you know, where you are. That's great, and really useful.
You sound like an authority on how policing should work, (I couldn't say as all I know is from watching it on tv)!

Sorry you found that thread tough going!
I was properly pasted when I first rolled up in these parts and asked why people couldn't be nicer to each other during disagreements. Now I understand!

[Bestcatmum]

I'm sorry OP but reading your very long and rambling thread makes me feel like my brain is scrambled eggs.
And what is "speak my truth".
Could you keep your posts short and to the point and you might get a better response.

[Buzzinwithbez]

The rest of us, not so much.
It's a car, with people in it, who are more likely to be men and (therefore more likely to be predatory), and it's prowling around me. That's something I need to be defensive about.

This. I posted upthread, but in our area, from what we know from a friend's recent experience there is at best a man who is out of control patrolling in a police car, at worst, a predatory man. We can't afford to let our guard down.

[rageapplied]

Honestly. No harm to you but you're insulated from what it's like for the public by the uniform you wear.

I called the police and wanted to report a rape and was told by the two male policemen who came out that no one would believe me.

So I didn't bother.

So I wouldn't even be in the stats. How often does that happen?

[Athenajm80]

I recognise you from other threads and really appreciate your view on things.

I think the disagreement or whatever you want to call it on the CF thread may have been down to emotions running high on all sides. Women on here are worried about the escalating police action against "wrong think", you understandably are defending your profession as I think most of us would if someone said that everyone doing our job was corrupt/evil/in the wrong, and I think things just spiralled from there. I could see it from both sides, I would be a bit 🧐 about being passed by the same police car several times in a short space, especially if they essentially kerb crawled me, however I know (believe) that most police are good so I can see that they probably didn't mean to intimidate.

It's good to get your perspective on things as it reassures us (or some of us) that not all police forces have gone batshit. Imho it's the force not the police officers that go wrong and individual police officers probably can't turn round to the high-ups and say "no, I'm not doing that" as it's their job to investigate a crime, regardless of how ridiculous it is.

Yes there are bad and evil officers like WC, but there are bad and evil people in all professions. It's just the police are more visible and are there to protect us, so it's more obvious and shocking when we hear about someone like WC. I think having you on here, someone who seems to be a decent officer, is a good thing as it can remind us that the police are real people and aren't all fuckwits. I get the similarities with NAMALT but surely standing with and supporting good officers is the best way to help tackle the issues within the force as an establishment, rather than writing off all police as having been captured by the gender shit.

I hope that makes sense?

[rageapplied]

Also, can someone tell me what thread this is about? I'd like to read it for context

[endofthelinefinally]

The answer, IMO, is to read. There is a very good thread called " Break it down for me". If you really don't know much about the subject, spend time reading and listening before posting.
There are lots of links and references that you will find helpful.
I grew up in a little village where there was not much crime and a friendly village bobby.
Then I moved to London.
I am lucky to live in a reasonable area but still lots of car crime, muggings, knife crime, burglaries. No visible policing to speak of really.
Lots of reports of really appalling behaviour by the police, particularly against women and ethnic minorities. It is grim.
The two young police officers who came to tell me my son was dead were lovely and very kind. But I can't think of another occasion where police have been polite or helpful.
This, unfortunately, is the reality that many of us live with.