Westministenders: Talks Walk Out?

[RedToothBrush]

We are now on the countdown to whether we get a backstop Withdrawal Deal. May is hoping to get the EU to backdown on this saying that we will stay in the customs union until a deal is agreed on NI. That would mean come 29th March, we'd have no transistion period, but we'd still have a hard border in NI because we were out of the single market. And if the EU don't agree to it we are into the chances of accidental Brexit being sky high. The only way out would be revoking a50. May has hinted that if Tory MPs don't give her support we could end up with no brexit at all - whether she means revoking a50 or Beano isn't clear.

So onward to 18th October...

Sorry, another graph on that peculiar poll, all those many years ago.
Patriotism got really popular in 2015 , strangely.

Apparently we are unpatriotic if we don't get behind Brexit.
I know, shit, isn't it.

I think, in terms of eating, that abandoning what you would normally consider a 'meal' to look like. The 'traditional' meat, potatoes and 2 veg or whatever may not be achievable but don't fret about 'presentation' and it may take a fair bit of stress away. Treat it as a bit of an adventure.
I did a weird died years ago where one meal might be beetroot and tuna. The next, French beans and whatever. Over a week it equated to a pretty balanced intake of nutrients but it certainly was odd.

Naah bellini.
I give no **s for patriotism. Like pornography it's made by men for men. With the same effects on women. Simple

I think I am getting to the stage where I do not think it is a given that we will have either freedom of speech or anything even close to democracy in 20 years time.

And thats regardless of whether we have a labour, tory or even the liberal democrat government.

All three have done much against the principles of liberal democracy. No one is promoting or defending the concept properly.

With the US going the way it is (and it will get a lot worse) and who its supporting around the world, I can see a collaspe in free media and journalism throughout the world being imminent.

I'm not a hopeful bunny.

Isn't patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel, as Johnson said ?

www.politico.eu/article/victoria-marinova-bulgaria-investigative-journalist-murdered/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Bulgarian investigative journalist murdered

A 30-year-old Bulgarian broadcast journalist was raped and murdered Saturday in the city of Ruse, local media reported.

At the time of her murder, Victoria Marinova, a reporter and producer at broadcaster TVN, was reporting on an investigation into alleged corruption involving EU funds.

Police said there was no evidence to suggest the murder was related to Marinova’s work, according to local media.

Anti-corruption groups and members of the European Parliament called for a full investigation into the death.

Daphne Caruana Galizia - Malta.
Investigating state corruption and money laundering

Ján Kuciak - Slovakia.
Investigating tax fraud and links between business men and politicians.

Three journalists murdered in the EU in twelve months

I'm not a hopeful bunny
We'll have to learn Madame Defarge knitting techniques to keep records.
Terrible news about Victorian Marinova. Another mother too.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2018/10/china-interpol-chief-meng-hongwei-investigation-181007153501880.html?__twitter_impression=true
China says Interpol chief Meng Hongwei detained
Authorities break silence days after Meng Hongwei vanished during his trip to Beijing, saying he is under investigation.

Thanks MrsR , I'm channelling my inner Posie Parker.

Then there is Trump promising to detain and charge any ICC judge who accepts a war crimes case against the USA, any ICC prosecutor who tries to charge a member of the US armed forces or a US politician

His (majority of the) Republican party refuse to accept any truth, any law, any court that is not controlled by them, to give the verdicts they want

and several journalists murdered in Russia, who criticised Putin or investigated someone or something he didsn't want

to really cheer you all up, this concern of another world financial crash has been expressed by many, including Gordon Brown

World economy at risk of another financial crash, says IMF

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/03/world-economy-at-risk-of-another-financial-crash-says-imf

I think I am getting to the stage where I do not think it is a given that we will have either freedom of speech or anything even close to democracy in 20 years time.

I am thinking along the same lines RTB.
Both for the U.K. and the US.
Which is a major issue for the world as a whole seeing the power that the US (and the U.K. to some extend) have.

I would feel safer on that front in another EU country. But I’m actually wondering if there aren’t any big forces at play that we dint see (or some people dint want us to see - see Russia). So that actually it’s not that much safer democracy wise.

BCF I’ve read that before. Which is another reason why you really dint want Brexit now and even less a No Deal.
The U.K. economy won’t recover a No Deal AND an economic crisis on the top of it.

Olga Lautman @ olganyc1211
What is happening right now is extremely dangerous

Marinova Bulgarian TV host was killed

Khashoggi @washingtonpost contributor was murdered inside the Saudi embassy in Turkey

Interpol’s President is missing inside of China

Forces want to suppress truth and we can’t let them

It is increasingly becoming difficult for a journalist to do their job of getting to the truth and exposing corruption. When Trump threatens and bashes journalists he only emboldens other leaders knowing that America will no longer condemn these attacks

We are in a lot of trouble. Everyone.

This is a world where you can envisage Trump starting to sent Saudi exiles back to Saudi. Never to be seen again. And beyond. So much more beyond. We are talking ever increasing echoes of the 1930s. What happens to the 'unwanted' , 'undeserving' and 'the troublemakers'? There is a darkness about this which leaks into every corner of the world.

And we are talking about fucking Brexit. It's such crap. Such bollocks driven crap and corruption. Against to these stories, Brexit starts to look like a party in the park.

I would feel safer on that front in another EU country. But I’m actually wondering if there aren’t any big forces at play that we dint see (or some people dint want us to see - see Russia). So that actually it’s not that much safer democracy wise.

Agree. There is no safety from the forces of totalitarianism as the US has fallen to it anywhere in the world. Even if Mueller succeeds, Trump has the legal system now.

The only way to defeat this level of totalitarianism would be a global uprising of people. The liklihood of that is miniscule with the technology and power humanity now has.

This was the best of times there will ever be. Its downhill from here. Especially for women.

God I'm grim.

It's bad, true. red.
We've also got no editors and 24/7 guff and media noise, which is not really all news, drowning out the real stuff.

Thread taking the long view on other recent sticky times.

@Noahpinion
Yes, we have been more divided than we are now. Within living memory.
twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1048750022475436032

For a global uprising, a lot of ordinary people who have to realise what's going on
And care
Not just wierdos like us

Currently most of the world has switched on nationalism / religion and switched off the rest of its brain

As that Applebaum Atlantic article said too, anyone who's had any time living in a liberal regime is a very lucky sausage. Liberal democracies are not the norm with us humans, so far.

{And we are talking about fucking Brexit. It's such crap. Such bollocks driven crap and corruption. Against to these stories, Brexit starts to look like a party in the park.}
There is a lot of 'stuff' that is adding up to serious unpleasantness, far more than was apparent say 10 or 15 years ago.
Sky news seems to have a UK knifing or shooting being reported almost every day. Either more is being reported or more is happening.
It is election day in Bosnia and adjacent countries today.

James O'brien @ mrjamesob
I’ve seen a lot of suggestions today that ‘liberal’ media should abandon plurality & the airing of illiberal but non-extremist positions because illiberal & extremist media doesn’t afford the same courtesy to us. If we do that, we’ve lost. It’s the whole point of being liberal.

Paul Kilby @ paulkilby16
James do you never tire of pedalling your fake liberal persona? Us on true left have your number pal. Your constant sluring and mockery of Corbyn scream of your Tory blood. I look forward to the day presenters like you are thrown in jail. #corbynforchristmas

James O'brien @ mrjamesob
^peddling slurring
More importantly, jailing dissenters is literally the antithesis of liberalism. Surely you don’t need this explaining.^

Danny Wallace @ Dannywallace
FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE MID-MORNING LBC PRESENTERS. And I did not speak out, because I'm on X on Sundays. Hi Paul, you seem fun!

We are in so much trouble.

This wouldn't have happened a few years ago.

It's not at society being divided or there being more violence.

We lived in an era where we were aware of the violence. You have you be more worried when you stop hearing about the violence and you just hear whispers and rumours that aren't verified or verifiable.

A society that allows you to be aware of the division, isn't as divided as you think despite differences of opinion. It values your right to know things and it values information and your right to choose.

When society no longer values that, division in society is forceably removed. Your choice - if you are lucky - is to accept it or to risk your life.

The world we have grown up in has shielded us from that reality. But it's been the reality of many.

We threw it away over fucking bendy bananas for Christ's sake.

A couple of days after Brexit I had the grimest of conversations with my parents over the ultimate implications. I stood on the stairs and said it could turn out to be about life and death over political freedom and wondered when they would come for me.

My parents didn't disagree.

History books are dangerous things. I keep picking up cheap ones where I can. I need my son to have the opportunity to know. Its something we took for granted.

You are right red thanks for saying it. We don't know what we've got till it's gone. I'm hanging on to my records and books.

wondered when they would come for me yup.

Even Dr Who ran an episode on brexit in 2009.
"It's a new law. England for the English."