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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Dh wants passports of me and the dc

175 replies

lavenderhoney · 28/08/2014 08:20

I left my dh and returned to the UK at the beginning of the year and am hoping to file for divorce this week and then serve him papers as he lives in the Middle East ( he is European)

He refuses to accept I want a divorce and the lawyer has asked me to discuss the best way to serve him without his flying off the handle. I think he is going to be furious as he just keeps saying I'm very selfish in not giving him a chance ( yet again) I have a whole thread in relationships about it all.

He sent me an email this week saying he was going to send everything to hell and lose the plot, no idea what he means. He has debt so cannot leave the ME until its paid.

He has asked me for the passports for me and the dc to cancel our visas - do I have to send them? I don't want to as I think he might take the children out of the UK.

And I'm worried about his reaction to me serving him, what can I expect? He does have his name on the house, but has never lived here.

Any advice much appreciated:)

OP posts:
Pagwatch · 28/08/2014 08:23

Why does he need to cancel visas?

I wouldn't hand passports over to a man with whom I am having to tread carefully as he refuses to accept that you want a divorce. No way.

Fairylea · 28/08/2014 08:24

No. Do not send them. Ever.

Write to the passport office caveat department and tell them what is going on. Say you have the passports and make them put alerts on just incase he tries to apply for new ones or anything else (I had to do this with my ex).

There is absolutely no reason why he needs to have your passports especially considering the laws in the middle east.

headlesslambrini · 28/08/2014 08:24

I really wouldnt send your passports. Tell him thst you need them as proof of ID to set things up here for you and the DCs. Can you cancel the visas directly or suggest this yo him and see what his reaction is. Get in touch with the ME embassy in London and ask their advice.

SavoyCabbage · 28/08/2014 08:25

Well I wouldn't! There is nothing to be gained by sending them.

You can also contact the passprt agency to prevent him applying for new passports.

www.justice.gov.uk/protecting-the-vulnerable/official-solicitor/international-child-abduction-and-contact-unit/prevention

SanityClause · 28/08/2014 08:26

What reason could there be for cancelling the visas? If they're not used, surely, they will just expire after a time?once you have them, they don't cost anything, surely?

I would be very loathe to hand over the passports. If visas do need cancelling for some reason, why can't you do it yourself?

Original poster
lavenderhoney · 28/08/2014 08:30

He says he needs them to cancel the visas as that's the law.

He also plans to come over every time the dc have a holiday and see them. I let him stay against advice from friends and here for two weeks but it was awful and won't be happening again. My lawyer says to try and keep it amicable but I don't want him staying in the house again.

Is it fair he sees the dc every holiday and I don't get that time with them? He doesn't see them otherwise- he calls once a week or less randomly on Skype to talk to them and has never done bedtime or bathtime, days out etc.

The lawyer says a court order in the UK won't stand up in the ME and be enforced so I can't expect him to send money - he hasn't sent any for a few months now.

OP posts:
BrightestBulbinBox · 28/08/2014 08:34

What kind of visa? I thought if you had a work/residency with a re-entry, you had x amount of time to return. If you didn't, the visa would be automatically cancelled.

I'd go in the expat boards and find out what happens if you don't, and how you need to go about it.

If the visas were via his employer, he may just have been asked by his employer.

Mostlyjustaluker · 28/08/2014 08:34

Contact the embassy of the country the visas are for and ask if they need to be cancelled. Seems very unlikely. If they do you can go to their London embassy and cancel the visa.

What country are the visa for?

Fairylea · 28/08/2014 08:35

My ex lives in the USA. He has half the holidays (at first he came and stayed here with his parents and had dd, now 11 years on he comes and gets her and takes her back to stay in the USA but we were far from amicable in the beginning! And USA is a different situation than the middle east). It's not fair for him to have all the holidays and he certainly shouldn't be staying in your house.

My ex sorted the visas with a passport photocopy. Would this work here? Does he even need to sort the visas if the children are not going back there?

Pagwatch · 28/08/2014 08:35

Your lawyer has said to try and kep it amicable. That does not mean 'do everything he wants.'

Don't send the passports.

BrightestBulbinBox · 28/08/2014 08:36

Maybe ME can't enforce it, but I doubt the amount he owed would go away, so he would still owe it when he eventually moved back from ME.

BrightestBulbinBox · 28/08/2014 08:38

Oh and I believe him about the visa, I jus think there's a way you may be able to do it yourself. You are talking about residency and work visas rather than tourism visas. Those are complicated and require the sponsor (usually your husbands company) to allow you to get an exit visa just to leave the country, right?

Ehhn · 28/08/2014 08:42

Do not give this man the passports. Agree with pp, alert the passport office. He is not your problem. You are a British citizen residing in Britain, the ME does not need your passport. The visa will expire. It doesn't matter if you are out of the country when it expires - in fact, that is preferable than being in the country!

DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN. I have followed your story and occasionally posted and it is very very clear that he is going to try to fuck you over and destroy your life - and the best way is through the kids. If he gets them to the ME, the law there will let him keep them permanently and you will have a very expensive and near impossible international legal battle that would cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. YOU OWE HIM NOTHING. He is a shit dad - he doesn't care about the kids or else he would have done days out and bedtimes, he only cares about the status having cute, bright, well brought up kids gives him and about depriving you of them. You have done so incredibly well - stay strong and fight this total bastard.

While you are at it, I recommend you read the book The Psychopath Test. It may explain his charm, intelligence, and attractiveness but may also give you an insight into his risk taking, selfishness and willingness to destroy those who dare cross him. Psychopaths don't have to be axe wielding maniacs - a disturbing proportion of successful citizens have the personality disorder.

MrsCampbellBlack · 28/08/2014 08:43

I wouldn't send him the passports. Could you talk to his employer's HR dept or maybe the embassy of the country in the UK?

MrsCampbellBlack · 28/08/2014 08:44

Am assuming the visas were to do with his job and that the company have a HR dept. You can't be the first person to be in this position.

TheLeftovermonster · 28/08/2014 08:45

We used to live in the UAE and, as far as I know, visas do have to be cancelled, and you do need the original passports to do that. Not sure if there is a way around it.

If he doesn't then send the passports back, you can probably cancel them and reapply?

alteredimages · 28/08/2014 08:46

Def wouldn't send the passports and yes, do contact the UKPA to make sure he can't apply for new ones.

Family law is completely different in the middle east and most countries don't have reciprocal agreements so do not enforce uk court orders and vice versa, including custody agreements.

Depending which ME country your H is in you may be able to file for divorce there but this is highly unlikely since islamic law only allows the husband to file for divorce and in any case it would have implications for custody later on (usually children return to father at around 12 years of age). There are exceptions such as egypt which allows the woman to file for divorce by forfeiting certain financial rights but it takes a long time and you might be unable to leave with the kids.

All the above is irrelevant really but I just wanted to point out how completely different family law is there and urge you to be very careful. I am not usually one to assume the worst but I would be quite wary in your position and would think carefully before making compromises.

PacificDogwood · 28/08/2014 08:47

I know nothing about visas or the ME, but under no circumstances send him those passports.
Seek legal advice about the visa situation - I am sure if there is some legal obligation about cancelling the visas this can be done without your stbexH being part of it directly.

LuvDaMorso · 28/08/2014 08:51

I read your other threads.

You are trying to keeping it amicable because there is no way he will pay maintenance otherwise from the ME. Law can't force him. How much money would be worth this crap? He's not paying it now, what makes you think he ever will?

When he stayed with you and spent lots of time with the dc, one of them started bed wetting. He was horrible to you in front of them. He just plonked them in front of the tv most days. They started copying his negativity. When he's in the ME, he hardly ever skypes them. When he does, he uses it to be mean to you too.

He has tried several times to get the children plus passports to travel with him without you. If he takes them to the ME you know you will never see them again.

What is the point in having any contact with him whatsoever?

He won't pay for his DC upkeep.

He is a bad influence on his own children.

He doesn't seem to care about his DC other than as possessions that have been "stolen".

You think he is planning to kidnap the children. If he does you won't get them back. Ever.

He is mean to you.

Why are you engaging with him at all?

Why are you even asking about the passports? Why would you think for a moment that you should do it? Why haven't you had them added to the watch list already?

You seem very passive in the face of a clear plan to kidnap your DC. What's going on?

Longdistance · 28/08/2014 08:53

Well, I can see his plan very clearly.

He takes the passports.
Doesn't return yours, says it's 'lost'.
Has the dc for the holidays.
Takes dc to the ME.
You have NO passport.

OVER MY DEAD BODY WOULD I GIVE HIM THE PASSPORTS!

Theoldhag · 28/08/2014 08:54

Do not send the passports

He sent me an email this week saying he was going to send everything to hell and lose the plot

When someone tells you what they are going to do, listen.

This man is going to try to really hurt you, I would be worried about him being in ME where the father has automatic sole rights to children.

Fairylea · 28/08/2014 08:54

Can I just add what's the worst that happens re the visas if you don't give him the passports? Whatever it is it isn't your problem.

TheHouseatWhoCorner · 28/08/2014 09:06

I'd contact the embassy for the country the visas are from. There must be a way to cancel them without sending them to him.

BrightestBulbinBox · 28/08/2014 09:07

Go to expat boards and see what the advices are on "lost" passports. Could you misplace your kids', get new ones issues then, the visa would be automatically void in old ones?

I also know of people who have 2 valid UK passports at a time - mostly when you have one passport in an embassy processing a visa but in the interim, you still need to travel. So you could get a second active passport for yourself and send in yours.

violetbunny · 28/08/2014 09:16

If the visas do have to be cancelled, there must be a way to do this without him being involved. What would happen if you had all decided to move back, him included? There must be some way to do it from the UK. As other have recommended, contact the embassy to get the correct info.

I've followed your other thread and all I can say is Do Not Engage with this man. Given his extreme behaviour, if I were you I would give up on any hope of getting maintenance out of him. If you do get it that's a bonus. But don't let him get away with this awful behaviour to try to keep the peace, your mental and emotional well being is worth more than that.