Shocked at how anti vax it seems to have got on here

[daisiesinmay]

Haven't been on this board for maybe a week and it seems to have some real scaremongering about AZ vaccine now. People are losing sight of the benefits I think because cases have gone down, but if they start to go up again and people are refusing vaccines then we'll have problems.
I remember when this board started up it was people all worried about the virus. Has the anxiety just transferred to the vaccine? FWIW had my AZ and no regrets

You seem to be completely misunderstanding my point.

Join the club!!

My point all along has been people assessing their own risk during a period of time when covid is low. But no-one wants to talk about covid being low and summer coming. I don't think we need to rush to be the first country completed and donating to struggling countries will enable us to get alternative stock for the young. Solves everyone's problems.

If you want to discuss whether we should donate vaccines to developing countries, coming onto a thread about antivaxxers and demanding posters who joined the conversation to dispute incorrect claims about the clinical trials offer their opinion on a political issue is probably not the best approach.

Why not start a thread about it?

I've read this entire thread. It first began with people being called antivax who are clearly not antivax, are pro vaccine and want to talk to about there being alternative vaccines available. If you want to talk about tin hat conspiracy theorists why don't you start a thread about it?

I do believe it is sometimes hard to know the truth. On another vaccine thread someone posted a scientific article about adenovirus vector vaccines. The end of the article seems to imply that you can only have 2 of these over a lifetime otherwise they are no longer effective.

www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/covid-19-vaccines-antibodies-booster/

This is a concern (if it is correct) as we will all probably need boosters after the first 2 jabs. I have tried to find other sources of information for this but there is not much out there but what there is seems to imply this could be true. I am definitely not anti vax and have had my first vaccination. But I would like to know whether this is true and if so whether there are plans in place beyond the current cycle of vaccinations. I think discussion on these issues is vital.

If you want to talk about tin hat conspiracy theorists why don't you start a thread about it?

I don't. I was talking about how to critically evaluate sources. Do you have comprehension issues?

I agree @lonelyplanet but all too often when questions start to be asked we're told we're not intelligent enough to understand and that's why other people need to make the decision for us.

I know what you're doing @noblegiraffe and it's beneath you.

I'm not anti vaccine - just concerns about the side effects. However have been made to feel unreasonable about having these reservations and therefore bowed to the pressure and just had AZ.

However have been made to feel unreasonable about having these reservations and therefore bowed to the pressure and just had AZ.

I’m sure you’ll be fine, most people are. But that’s shit that you were made to feel unreasonable for having reservations. Some people are arseholes.

You should never feel pressurised into having medical procedures. That’s unethical.

@AppleJane

I know what you're doing *@noblegiraffe* and it's beneath you.

I have no idea what you’re on about and you appear to be unable to read my posts.

[quote RidOfMe]@daisiesinmay

It’s worse than that.

I’ve just been following a thread here. Very intelligent people posting content to support their beliefs.

They were called out for - 1) posting links to authors with homophobic views, 2) posting a quote with anti Semitic undertones, 3) posting a letter (author produced a film by David Icke). I’m reported them, but it wasn’t obvious - they were being very nasty to anyone who challenged their views, claiming they weren’t conspiracy theorists.
They were clearly trying to create their own echo chamber, and indoctrinate others.[/quote]
Indoctrinate? Really?
Reported.

@lonelyplanet interesting article, i agree it's hard at times to find out the facts about some of these things - i think some of that is that we just don't know the answers yet and it takes time to find out.
It is quite an old article & i noticed it also expressed concern that such vaccines wouldn't be able to reduce transmission - concerns which we now know were unfounded. It sounds as though we may not respond well to more than 2 doses of the same adenovirus vector. So as we have several good vaccines already the solution may well involve mixing vaccines, if it's found to be a problem in reality and if we find we do need boosters etc. Lots of ifs!

@lonelyplanet
I think the booster vaccinations will be added into the flu vaccine from something I read a while ago.
Just as we have the flu vaccine every year and it’s updated every year, as far as I believe they are looking to merge them, but I read that a while ago so I could be wrong.

I think it can be far too easy to forget that whilst there are anti vaxxers, there are also those carrying the historic trauma of generations of forced medical procedures, often along with personal trauma from things they have been subjected to.

It is completely understandable that they would have vaccine hesitancy and mistrust of Government provided information. Shutting down genuine questions, worries and anxieties with glib comments, rudeness and dogma is beyond unhelpful and in some cases cruel and downright racist.

I treat a lot of patients who cannot wear masks for trauma related reasons, some of them claim they are anti maskers to avoid having to disclose their PTSD and trauma. They feel it better to be reviled as anti maskers than to live through the shame and torment of people knowing the various hideous things which they have survived.

My best friend is First Nation and survived the Canadian Residential Schools, she allows people to assume shes an anti vaxxer (shes not, far from it) as she would rather deal with that than have anyone know her past, and she is struggling greatly with the push on vaccination and with feeling pressurised. To me that is horrific.

You never know what someone had been through, or is coping with.

Calling someone “anti vaxx” because they want to make a true informed decision on an unlicensed vaccine or any vaccine for that matter is pure gaslighting.

Get the vaccine if you choose to take that risk but don’t try to manipulate others using the term “anti vaxx” just because they have reservations or decide against it.

'Unlicensed vaccine'

'Choose to take that risk'

'Manipulate others'

Wow. Hypocrisy, much.

Indoctrinate? Really?
Reported.

What's to report, savethegrannies? Unless it makes you uncomfortable. I didn't really see anyone there looking at ideas critically.

@notsomagic
Although anti vaxers would have the world believe they are the only ones to do any research or even read the leaflet. I think what you will find is every decent parent will research and read anything that is going into their babies body.

One other thing I love about anti vaxers is how sorry you all feel for yourselves, “ manipulate” please grow a backbone if your going to be part of this debate. The very definition of debate is exactly what is going on here “ an argument about a particular subject, especially one in which many people are involved”

Manipulation “exercising unscrupulous control or influence over a person or situation” on the other hand is why everyone else gets so irate with anti vaxers, manipulation is what you all do to the more vulnerable people out their, first time mums, for just one example.

We don’t care if you don’t get the vaccine, do your research, get the vaccine or don’t. Don’t spread false information around like wildfire trying to instil doubt in other peoples mind!
That is why the larger population look at you with disgust because of your behaviour towards vulnerable people. I remember first hand how it felt.

@noblegiraffe

'Unlicensed vaccine'

'Choose to take that risk'

'Manipulate others'

Wow. Hypocrisy, much.

Exactly. Classic and predictable

Typical anit-vax script from @notsomagic

It's not anti-vax to want to hear an update from the MHRA and JCVI. On 7th April they changed the recommendation for the under 30s and the numbers have changed since. Clearly they considered it was best to give the under 30s at that time a different vaccine. Of course some of us in our 30s and 40s feel like that puts us in a difficult situation when covid rates are low. It sounds a lot of the blood clot cases have been in the 30s-50s age groups specifically. (And you can tell me the pill is riskier but actually I've never taken it so that means nothing to me personally.)

It's also very unusual to not have any choice about a treatment or health care related issue. I would happily pay for a Moderna vaccine if I could, just as I choose to pay privately for dental work or had a mole removed privately when my NHS GP said it wouldn't be done on the NHS.

By all means offer AZ clinics to anyone keen to take it right now though. In fact I think they should open them up to all over 18s now as it's getting frustrating things have slowed down so much with first doses. I might even take AZ tomorrow if I could, especially if knew what the wait for a different vaccine looks like (ie if there was no alternative at all this year). If I could get Moderna later in the summer then I'd be happy to let others go ahead of me in the queue for AZ though. I still remember how early on during the roll out people specifically wanted AZ and not one of the MRNA vaccines.

I still remember how early on during the roll out people specifically wanted AZ and not one of the MRNA vaccines.

Ha, yes I do too! Strange how things can change so quickly.

[quote Belle82]@notsomagic
Although anti vaxers would have the world believe they are the only ones to do any research or even read the leaflet. I think what you will find is every decent parent will research and read anything that is going into their babies body.

One other thing I love about anti vaxers is how sorry you all feel for yourselves, “ manipulate” please grow a backbone if your going to be part of this debate. The very definition of debate is exactly what is going on here “ an argument about a particular subject, especially one in which many people are involved”

Manipulation “exercising unscrupulous control or influence over a person or situation” on the other hand is why everyone else gets so irate with anti vaxers, manipulation is what you all do to the more vulnerable people out their, first time mums, for just one example.

We don’t care if you don’t get the vaccine, do your research, get the vaccine or don’t. Don’t spread false information around like wildfire trying to instil doubt in other peoples mind!
That is why the larger population look at you with disgust because of your behaviour towards vulnerable people. I remember first hand how it felt.[/quote]
This ^ +++