Shocked at how anti vax it seems to have got on here

[daisiesinmay]

Haven't been on this board for maybe a week and it seems to have some real scaremongering about AZ vaccine now. People are losing sight of the benefits I think because cases have gone down, but if they start to go up again and people are refusing vaccines then we'll have problems.
I remember when this board started up it was people all worried about the virus. Has the anxiety just transferred to the vaccine? FWIW had my AZ and no regrets

There are a few posters with agendas on the Coronavirus board.

There are also some posters asking genuine questions or who are understandably cautious.

It's fairly easy by now to distinguish between the two.

Not for the covid vaccination but for another illness which is creeping up in numbers and will only get worse with the increasing anti vaxer population.

Measles vaccine really needs to be made mandatory, just as it has been in France, makes me sad this country won’t do what is necessary to stop the anti vaxer spread of false information!

www.change.org/p/matt-hancock-make-the-mmr-vaccine-mandatory?recruiter=155577565&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition&recruited_by_id=04b59309-b2c0-4e9c-9239-f4512717676a

Yes shedloads of able ism on COVID boards especially.
From memory we had give the jobs of the shielding to those on furlough.
ECv should stay home temporarily as it isn't fair to lock healthy people up. We weren't even in lockdown at this point.
Why should my child miss out on ... activity just to protect people who have lived their lives. Well some children are ECV.
Only 300 or whatever figure under 60 died without pre existing conditions.
It's just natural selection and we are overpopulated anyway.
Not exact wording but you get the idea.
Agree though about coughing. I have mild asthma which manifests as a cough. Thankfully not had any response in real life.

With roughly 160 cases of blood clots from the AZ vaccine it’s just stupidity to refuse it tbh. Read the side affects of your other meds and the stats that go with them and get.a.grip 🤦🏼‍♀️

@daisiesinmay

It’s worse than that.

I’ve just been following a thread here. Very intelligent people posting content to support their beliefs.

They were called out for - 1) posting links to authors with homophobic views, 2) posting a quote with anti Semitic undertones, 3) posting a letter (author produced a film by David Icke). I’m reported them, but it wasn’t obvious - they were being very nasty to anyone who challenged their views, claiming they weren’t conspiracy theorists.
They were clearly trying to create their own echo chamber, and indoctrinate others.

With roughly 160 cases of blood clots from the AZ vaccine it’s just stupidity to refuse it tbh. Read the side affects of your other meds and the stats that go with them and get.a.grip

People have the right to choose and think differently from you, it doesn’t mean they’re stupid. I won’t be having the vaccine, nothing to do with blood clots, but if it was, that’s my choice.

@KaleSlayer your entitled to think whatever you want but if you form your views based on thinking that doesn’t make sense and you do it in a public forum and try to persuade others using your dodgy date and information then I will call you out and call it stupidity.

Check out the yellow card repotting, and apparently only 10% of serious side effects gets reported. This info does not make it to the mass media, I wonder why?!

your entitled to think whatever you want but if you form your views based on thinking that doesn’t make sense and you do it in a public forum and try to persuade others using your dodgy date and information then I will call you out and call it stupidity.

What? I haven’t tried to persuade anyone to do anything. I think you have the wrong poster. I’ve only said that someone choosing not to have the vaccine isn’t automatically stupid. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Do you ever read the information leaflet that comes with any medication? They pretty much all have rare serious side effects, even basic ones like aspirin. It’s not covered up, it’s put in the box with the medication.

@winniestone37 I think the number is over 200 now but what people are concerned about is that the majority of the official 41 fatalities happened to people in their 50's and younger. They are worried this trend might increase as the vaccination ages get lower. It's just something people are looking at before deciding.

@noblegiraffe

Do you ever read the information leaflet that comes with any medication? They pretty much all have rare serious side effects, even basic ones like aspirin. It’s not covered up, it’s put in the box with the medication.

Yes, I do and do not take any kind of trash without weighing out the risks. But this this not even just about any kind of medicine- it's a new technology that's being mass injected into people with no proper safety testing. Scientists are not some kind of gods with perfect knowledge. There are many examples when scientists and doctors made mistakes and people were harmed. People have the right to be concerned.

do not take any kind of trash without weighing out the risks

Trash? That’s a weird word to use?

it's a new technology that's being mass injected into people with no proper safety testing

It went through Phase I, II and III clinical trials. What’s ‘proper safety testing’ if not clinical trials?

And what about the safety implications of not having a covid vaccination program? As you are talking about balancing the risks....do you prefer lockdowns? Mass deaths?

sparrow i am like you. I just don’t take medication. I don’t take the pill because we have known for years about blood clots. And these are a different kind of clot. And you can choose to take the pill or another kind.

I learnt the hard way after a family member took one for years that later we learnt had issues.

I’m utterly gobsmacked - amazed - at the trust in the U.K. regulator over this issue when they missed the clot issue initially. I agree we don’t know what the data is like - I hear so many anecdotal stories. The press is silent in the issue apart from the “my relative nearly died from the jab but it was a freak accident and please everyone get it”.

I think the press has been silenced on the issue.

The government will not allow anything to railroad the UK’s path to normality. Maybe that’s a good thing - maybe we accept the collateral damage - but I remain gobsmacked by it all.

I am praying I am wrong and I am insane as I have lost faith in the system and if there is a problem, then people lose faith in other vaccines too.

when they missed the clot issue initially

I’m not sure you understand statistics or the words ‘extremely rare’.

I think the press has been silenced on the issue.

Why do you think that when it has been in the news regularly for months?

noble I’m sorry but what do you mean? The clot issue was found by other countries who adopted a more vigilant response to data. It was found early. We said we didn’t have the same issue. Then we did more research and found 79 cases. Our algorithms missed it.

And we then talked about “very rare” and “vanishingly small” and the numbers looked like 1 in a million.

And then we found more numbers.

And I’m not sure 1/20,000 is so rare now. And if you look at numbers in age groups it’s even more important to assess risk.

But perhaps I need to understand statistics. As I said, I’m astonished this isn’t being discussed and there isn’t outrage at the shoddiness (or deliberate shoddiness?) of our regular. It stinks

@noblegiraffe

do not take any kind of trash without weighing out the risks

Trash? That’s a weird word to use?

it's a new technology that's being mass injected into people with no proper safety testing

It went through Phase I, II and III clinical trials. What’s ‘proper safety testing’ if not clinical trials?

And what about the safety implications of not having a covid vaccination program? As you are talking about balancing the risks....do you prefer lockdowns? Mass deaths?

No, I don't think that mass deaths would be better. But I do think that rushing out mass vaccination programs especially with not fully tested drugs could lead to unwanted results. There are scientists who say that lockdowns don't work and were unnecessary measures. We can see that the countries who did not lock down had very similar infection/death rate to the UK . I know that one might say that Brazil and India are overwhelmed with Covid. Based on a quick google, I can see that the infection/death rate is similar per 1m to the UK again, if not even lower!! Those countries have a lot more people! Overall the risk of death from Covid is relatively very low, even for those who are elderly. On the other hand, there are too many deaths and short term side effects from the jabs with no known long term effects.

No, I don't think that mass deaths would be better. But I do think that rushing out mass vaccination programs especially with not fully tested drugs could lead to unwanted results.

They went though the clinical trials process. They've been given to millions of people. Because they've been given to millions of people, we are finding cases of extremely rare side effects. That happens when you give medication to millions of people.

On the other hand, there are too many deaths and short term side effects from the jabs with no known long term effects.

How many deaths from the jabs compared to deaths from covid? And we are fairly murky about the long term effects of covid but we know that there are a lot of people with long term illness/disability as a result of that.

There are scientists who say that lockdowns don't work and were unnecessary measures.

And what do they say about India?

@noblegiraffe

No, I don't think that mass deaths would be better. But I do think that rushing out mass vaccination programs especially with not fully tested drugs could lead to unwanted results.

They went though the clinical trials process. They've been given to millions of people. Because they've been given to millions of people, we are finding cases of extremely rare side effects. That happens when you give medication to millions of people.

On the other hand, there are too many deaths and short term side effects from the jabs with no known long term effects.

How many deaths from the jabs compared to deaths from covid? And we are fairly murky about the long term effects of covid but we know that there are a lot of people with long term illness/disability as a result of that.

There are scientists who say that lockdowns don't work and were unnecessary measures.

And what do they say about India?

So the drugs completed the clinical trials but neither the short term nor any long term side effects were identified. Have you bothered to check out the yellow card to find what is actually going on? And apparently only 10% of serious side effects are reported on there! In reality no long term impact can be assessed as we have only a months worth of data. Why would you not weigh your personal risk from the unknown of the jab vs known of covid??? By saying that more people have died from covid than the injections would imply to me that only those deaths caused by covid count! And after this the so called tin hat anti vaxxers can still be called stupid! You cannot even logically reason anymore. This is a sad insane world

So the drugs completed the clinical trials but neither the short term nor any long term side effects were identified

I don't think you understand clinical trials. Clinical trials don't generally pick up extremely rare side effects because they aren't run on enough people. That's why the yellow card reporting scheme exists. New side effects are discovered when new medicines are rolled out all the time, but we can't hold off on rolling out new medicines that will save lives indefinitely. In all trials, the severity of side effects is balanced against the risk of not taking the medication - the side effects of chemotherapy are horrendous, but are acceptable in the context of cancer.

In reality no long term impact can be assessed as we have only a months worth of data.

Why are you lying?

Why would you not weigh your personal risk from the unknown of the jab vs known of covid???

I don't think you can describe the risks of covid as 'known' or the risks of the jab as 'unknown'. But from what we do know, the balance of risks fall in favour of vaccination. In terms of the AZ vaccine, the data suggests this is still true for older age groups.

I don't understand why people don't understand that what is happening is fairly normal in the life cycle of any new medicine.

The difference is that there has never been a new medicine that has been rolled out so extensively to such a huge number of people in such a short space of time (at least I don't think there has?). So, side effects and deaths are happening in a concentrated time frame, instead of over several years.

For example, if the AZ vaccine had been given to 18 million + people (not sure of the current figure)over a period of 5 years and there had been 200 cases of blood clots over those 5 years, would people still be posting thread after thread after thread about the "risk"?

When the breast cancer drug Herceptin was first launched there were some deaths associated with it and warnings were added to the labelling, just as with AZ. Herceptin is still very much in use, because like the AZ vaccine, the benefits far out weigh the risks.

www.thepharmaletter.com/article/genentech-warns-of-herceptin-deaths

As for not knowing whether there will be any long term side-effects of the vaccine, well that will have been the case for every single medication out there when they were initially launched, won't it?

I don't think MN is a true reflection of real life, thankfully. In real life, most people are still happy to have the vaccine.

I don't think MN is a true reflection of real life, thankfully. In real life, most people are still happy to have the vaccine.

From threads I’ve seen, I think most people on here are happy to have the vaccine.

It’s a good thing that people do question things and look at the evidence and information available to them, to make their own decision.

I don't think you would have half this discussion going on if the UK cut off age for AZ was higher than 30. Some people are not happy with the risk assessment, particularly while covid is low.

Oh I think we'd have this discussion going on regardless because there have been bad faith posters criticising the vaccines since they were first proposed, for many and varied reasons.

Negatives of the vaccines should be discussed though, no?