Shocked at how anti vax it seems to have got on here

[daisiesinmay]

Haven't been on this board for maybe a week and it seems to have some real scaremongering about AZ vaccine now. People are losing sight of the benefits I think because cases have gone down, but if they start to go up again and people are refusing vaccines then we'll have problems.
I remember when this board started up it was people all worried about the virus. Has the anxiety just transferred to the vaccine? FWIW had my AZ and no regrets

Are they usually accompanied by discussion of the positives of the vaccine? Are they evidence-informed? Are they based on an understanding of how clinical trials work?

Let's look at the ONS infection survey graph from yesterday, particularly the infection rates in the older age groups. Particularly in the over 70s. Isn't that wonderful?

If Astrazeneca was the only vaccine created that could tackle covid then I'd agree. But there are alternatives and if Covid transmission is as low this summer as it was last then it just means waiting slightly longer for supplies. Goals set initially should be flexible.

Presumably, different people would bring different things to the discussion. Some will be positive about it, others will want to discuss the negatives. For some, 200 people having blood clots will be enough to make them not have it, others would be happy to have it even if that number was 2000. I’ve seen the evidence on both ‘sides’. I don’t believe we are ever told the full truth, we are told what the government want us to know, as with all things.

It’s great news that infection rates are decreasing, of course. I still wouldn’t have the vaccine.

We know that humans in general are really bad at assessing risk and understanding probability.

And we also know that some people are deliberately spreading disinformation with an an anti-vaccine agenda.

And some people are unknowingly spreading disinformation because of poor understanding of the issues.

It’s hard to assess risk when governments around the world lie to people to suit their own agenda and the masses are encouraged to blindly follow.

People that are anti vaccination are entitled to that opinion. They should be able to talk about it. People need to engage their own brain and make a decision that they feel is right for them.

@AppleJane

If Astrazeneca was the only vaccine created that could tackle covid then I'd agree. But there are alternatives and if Covid transmission is as low this summer as it was last then it just means waiting slightly longer for supplies. Goals set initially should be flexible.

Some people seem to think that the only options are AZ or no vaccine, or at least they want to argue like those are the only options. The UK is well ahead in vaccinating the population so it can afford to slow down a bit in order to get enough supplies of other vaccines for the under 50s, perhaps while allowing younger people to voluntarily take the AZ if they don't want to wait a bit longer.

It’s hard to assess risk when governments around the world lie to people to suit their own agenda

Do you think the European Medicines Agency is lying?

If there was some big cover-up going on, do you think we would know about the extremely rare side effects at all?

People claiming that the press is being silenced when it has been all over the news is just mad.

Doesn't the European Medicines Agency agree that the risk outweighs the benefits in certain age groups?

Whose advice are countries such as the Netherlands following then?

Some people seem to think that the only options are AZ or no vaccine, or at least they want to argue like those are the only options. The UK is well ahead in vaccinating the population so it can afford to slow down a bit in order to get enough supplies of other vaccines for the under 50s, perhaps while allowing younger people to voluntarily take the AZ if they don't want to wait a bit longer.

This is very logical to me. Or donate to countries who aren't doing so well.

@Dowser

I’m pro vax. I’m going to have the one that gives 100 per cent protection and 0 side effects..guaranteed.

I’m first in the queue for when that comes out..
Form an orderly queue.

You will have been run over by a bus before that happens, as you well know.

Of course there is a slight risk to the vaccines - all of them. There is quite a significant risk to being alive, because there's a lot scarier things out there waiting for you than the vaccines. And I am not even including Covid in that number.

Doesn't the European Medicines Agency agree that the risk outweighs the benefits in certain age groups?

No. They say that it is more complicated than a blanket decision and that each country needs to decide based on things like vaccine supply, vaccine coverage, priority groups and covid prevalence in their own country. These vary massively.

@AppleJane

Doesn't the European Medicines Agency agree that the risk outweighs the benefits in certain age groups?

EMA says risks outweight benefits in ALL age groups.

"Vaxzevria (formerly COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca) is authorised in the EU to prevent COVID-19, which can cause severe disease and death. The disease can also have long-term consequences in people of all ages, including in otherwise healthy people.

The benefits of Vaxzevria outweigh its risks in adults of all age groups; however, very rare cases of blood clots with low blood platelets have occurred following vaccination."

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

Agh! I mean benefits outweigh risks!

I think we have no idea really as to who is telling the truth. Corruption is everywhere unfortunately. That doesn’t mean that all info is corrupt, just that we don’t know what is and isn’t.
As an example, I know people who have watched documentaries like the recent seaspiracy and are genuinely surprised about some of the lies that people are told by governments, health services etc. People are just so trusting and governments rely on that for people to do what they want at times like this.

People have to weigh up the pros and cons for themselves. Most people will choose to have the vaccine anyway.

I think we have no idea really as to who is telling the truth.

Well that's just not true.

We can be sure that 5G doesn't cause covid despite what some people will tell you because that's just scientifically bonkers.

We can be sure that they are not putting microchips in the vaccines that will poison you and cull the population after a certain amount of time.

We can be sure covid exists and hasn't been made up by governments to impose control techniques on their populations

If you genuinely say you have no idea whether these things are true or not, then there's no helping you.

Can’t we just have a moderate discussion please? Why discussing vaccines do we need to hurl accusations of other matters? It just waters down a sensible debate

You might think younger people are stupid to even question the vaccines for covid but the data is emerging.

Lol. Yes, I’m with you on all those things. 🤣

That's not right mentioning 5g and microchips when no-one has said that. This is getting silly now when people just want a grown up discussion. It's like #nodebate.

That's not right mentioning 5g and microchips when no-one has said that.

No one ever? Are you sure?

If you agree that it is possible to critically evaluate those positions for 'truth', then how is that possible? Can that be applied to other positions? At what point do you say 'we have no idea who is telling the truth'?

To be honest noble if you response to us with genuine concerns about the AZ vaccine is that we therefore must believe in x or y, you have lost the argument.

No one ever? For goodness sake, stop scraping the bottom of the barrel.

What's your honest opinion @noblegiraffe about not doing any further first doses and donating to other countries who haven't yet vaccinated their elderly and vulnerable?

You seem to be completely misunderstanding my point.

I am talking about people's ability to evaluate truth. A poster claimed that it was impossible to know who is telling the truth. In which case how do you know that there aren't microchips in the vaccines?

Clearly there are methods we can use to critically evaluate claims and they should be employed here rather than throwing up our hands and saying 'who knows??'.

What's your honest opinion @noblegiraffe about not doing any further first doses and donating to other countries who haven't yet vaccinated their elderly and vulnerable?

Very random tangent there. How is that at all relevant to a discussion about vaccine safety?

It's like #nodebate

It is. That’s why I don’t usually get involved in this stuff.