Shiri Bibas and children

[whatwouldyoudoifisangoutofkey]

I don't understand how it's known how they died.
I think speculating on how a person died is against MN talk guidelines but does anyone know what % of certainty we can have in the reports ?

Their murder is horrific. So is the murder of children in Gaza. It is possible to condemn both

@Baital Hamas are responsible for both. Why is it impossible to discuss Hamas's murder of these specific children, and how they have been used to torture Israelis and Jews around the world, without any thread on the subject being derailed? What Hamas is causing to happen to the children of Gaza is also absolutely horrible, yes, but their reasons for doing that and the mechanism by which they are harming those children is obviously different to strangling them.

Well, Oxfam figures say over 10,000 children have been killed by Israeli military action since October 7

They haven't been given the dignity of a name, or details of their death.

If you think they are victims of Hamas - a valid point of view - why aren't you raising their cases?

Why some children and not others?

"Information" provided by whom?

Hamas. As propaganda.

This wasn't "the only information the public had at the time." It was the Hamas line which people had no problem believing uncritically. That is the point we are making.

The other information we had at the time was a) the video of the Bibas family with a terrified Shiri clutching her babies, being kidnapped by Gazan civilians b) The knowledge of the atrocities carried out on Oct 7th, which we gained from first hand survivor reports and the disgusting bodycam videos that the attackers decided to take themselves while proudly murdering, torturing and raping Jews. c) The information that Israel was bombing Gaza in retaliation with many killed.

So yes, it was possible that hostages had been killed in airstrikes. But it was equally possible that they some of them had been brutally murdered in captivity, especially if taken by adjacent groups to Hamas.

To add, I am very uncomfortable with the far right narrative of the replacement theory. I don't think any piece of the world, the UK included, 'belongs' to any ideology or people with a specific skin colour. I don't think white people own the piece of land that is the UK. Or that Jewish people have a God given right to various territories.

Everyone has the right to live in peace with their neighbours

I see. Proving again that it is impermissible to discuss the Bibas family here. Thanks for making it so clear what the agenda is.

By the way, the only "far right" trope in this thread is the anti Semitic note being repeatedly struck.

The agenda? You know nothing about me, except I have said that the killing of any child is horrific

Why are you choosing to derail the thread which is specifically about the Bibas family when there are plenty of other threads you can discuss this on?

We are discussing named individuals who were specifically murdered, by hand, having been kidnapped from their homes, by terrorists during the 7th October atrocity, or pogrom.

No, their individual lives are not more important than any other child. However, in this context - children killed as a result of bombing, and children snatched from their homes and gleefully murdered, by hand, then their bodies returned to their families in a grotesque display filled with anti semitic imagery, we are allowed to discuss the particular circumstances.

Are you as interested in all the other children all over the world who are killed as a result of war, or just Gazan ones? Why do you think ones killed in Israeli military strikes are more important than all the other children in the world who are killed by various governments' military actions? Why don't you start a thread on them?

Oh, because you don't actually care at all but just want to whatabout on this specific one due to your choice to blame Israel for the revolting actions of Hamas.

Well, I do care about other children being killed and abused, such as in DRC

What Hamas did is revolting. What Isreal has done in response is to kill even more children. Where does it end?

Your agenda is to derail any discussion of the Bibas family. You have made this clear by derailing a discussion of the Bibas family. I'm not sure what's confusing. You also refused to acknowledge that simple reality that Hamas is to blame for the deaths and suffering of Gazan children, because you want to direct blame at Israel.

I'm amazed that you think there is anything unclear about your manner of posting. Seems disingenuous.

Well said.

Why don't you go and make a thread about the DRC?

Oh, it's because you want to derail this thread, which is meant to be about the Bibas family.

I am an anti semite, and also Jewish?

That's grand, let's all move to Africa the climates great and it's rich with minerals.

Well, why aren't there any posts about the children and families of Gaza? Why don't they matter? Because they don't have MN posters who know about them?

There are many.

Palestinian people kidnapped this family. Someone then chose to murder the children and lie about their deaths. It isn’t surprising no one knew if they were alive or dead, whether Hamas could not be believed- they are clearly liars spreading disinformation at every opportunity and using hostages.

The tragic deaths in Gaza are war deaths. Children were not targeted. Areas were targeted, Hamas was targeted. Palestinian Babies were not stolen and murdered in cold blood.

????

The European powers, and now China etc, moved in and massacred/ abused the local population

Is that what you advocate?

There loads of threads about this.
Unfortunately they are mainly under headers such as, 'Israeli Atrocities in Gaza' or 'Look at what the IDF has done'.
Almost as if people hate Israel more than they care about Gazans.

So why aren't you making those threads? There are multiple where this is discussed. You could go on them. You'll find lots of other people agree with you and want to blame Israel and Jews for everything.

THIS thread is about the Bibas family. Who we wish to discuss respectfully. Why are you derailing?

Instead of wasting people's time go and make your own thread. Disingenuous in the extreme.

@Baital How odd, that you are so committed to derailing this thread about the Bibas family. I wonder what drives you to feel such distaste towards Kfir and Ariel, who were nine months at age of kidnap (ten months at age of murder) and four years old, respectively. It's hard for me to understand your perspective.

If you had made a thread about a Gazan child, even if you had blamed Israel (which I think is factually wrong and ideologically repugnant), I would not have commented to say "no, let's not talk about this child! I want to talk about Kfir and Ariel". But that's exactly what you've done here.

It's OK to kill 10,000 children with bombs.

Right

Because this thread came up on 'trending'

No more, no less