Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

842 replies

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 15:51

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-22/ty-article/.premium/slovenia-demands-israels-removal-from-eurovision-2025/00000193-ed37-da9f-ad9b-ed7f3d140000

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 23/12/2024 15:53

They should be removed.

TiramisuCheesecake · 23/12/2024 15:55

Eurovision is not about politics.

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 15:58

TiramisuCheesecake · 23/12/2024 15:55

Eurovision is not about politics.

Is that why they didn’t allow Russia taking part?

https://eurovision.tv/mediacentre/release/ebu-statement-russia-2022

OP posts:
TheFlyingHorse · 23/12/2024 16:05

TiramisuCheesecake · 23/12/2024 15:55

Eurovision is not about politics.

Well neither is sport but South Africa was banned from international competition during apartheid.

I've never been too sure why a non European country was participating anyway.

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:09

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 15:58

Is that why they didn’t allow Russia taking part?

https://eurovision.tv/mediacentre/release/ebu-statement-russia-2022

Edited

Because Russia unilaterally invaded a sovreign European nation completely unprovoked. Completely different scenario.

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:13

TheFlyingHorse · 23/12/2024 16:05

Well neither is sport but South Africa was banned from international competition during apartheid.

I've never been too sure why a non European country was participating anyway.

Israel is not comparable to the apartheid regime which was a total holistic system of racial hierarchy and subjugation. Whatever issues there are with human rights and inequality in Israel it is not comparable. And if you think it is please do some research.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/12/2024 16:16

Nelson Mandela disagreed with you @SharonEllis

I don't know enough about it but I'd say Mandela was an expert.

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 16:38

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:09

Because Russia unilaterally invaded a sovreign European nation completely unprovoked. Completely different scenario.

so Eurovision is políticss then

shall I also remind you that Israel is occupying Palestine and has been requested to abandon by court ?

OP posts:
TheFlyingHorse · 23/12/2024 18:01

It is compatible in my opinion. Israel's leaders have been accused of war crimes.

JingsMahBucket · 23/12/2024 19:00

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:13

Israel is not comparable to the apartheid regime which was a total holistic system of racial hierarchy and subjugation. Whatever issues there are with human rights and inequality in Israel it is not comparable. And if you think it is please do some research.

Israel is an apartheid state. They worked with apartheid South Africa to exchange knowledge and methods of oppression as well as military intelligence and arms. At one point Israel was one of SA’s only trading partners because the latter was being shunned by other nations.

Portakalkedi · 23/12/2024 19:01

I don't understand why any non-European countries take part, makes a nonsense (or more of one) of the name Eurovision.

Alwayslookonthe · 23/12/2024 19:13

JingsMahBucket · 23/12/2024 19:00

Israel is an apartheid state. They worked with apartheid South Africa to exchange knowledge and methods of oppression as well as military intelligence and arms. At one point Israel was one of SA’s only trading partners because the latter was being shunned by other nations.

No it is not an apartheid state. Even Mansour Abbas - leader of Raam party in Israel - says Israel is not an apartheid state.
Working with and trading with South Africa during the apartheid years does not make that country apartheid.

Alwayslookonthe · 23/12/2024 19:16

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/12/2024 16:16

Nelson Mandela disagreed with you @SharonEllis

I don't know enough about it but I'd say Mandela was an expert.

Nelson Mandela didn’t compare Israel to the apartheid regime. So Nelson Mandela didn’t disagree with Sharon Ellis.

ararara · 23/12/2024 19:17

totally fair request.

Whatsinanamehey · 23/12/2024 19:31

Israel most certainly should not be allowed to compete. Their leaders have been charged with crimes against humanity. That should be enough to bar them.

Whatsinanamehey · 23/12/2024 19:33

Their PM can't even travel to most of Europe without being arrested so why should they be allowed to compete?

Lalaloveya · 23/12/2024 20:50

I think they should be banned from all international competitions of this kind. States who act like they do should be pariahs.

Gem359 · 23/12/2024 20:56

The Prime Minister has been charged with war crimes so yes they should be removed.

Kindatired · 23/12/2024 22:34

Israel is probably carrying out what is technically genocide and if it doesn’t meet the technical definition of genocide, it is just a matter of semantics or a debatable point of law. Israel should not take part in the Eurovision, but they got away with it last year by cashing in on the outrage about the recent terrorist attack. Who couldn’t feel sympathy for a country that had suffered so much after all?
The Israeli government denies that it’s deliberately targeting civilians. But if you knocked down your neighbours child as you rushed to the hospital with your own sick relative , you would still be expected to stop and help the child. You would be expected to apologise and pay compensation. If the child died, you wouldn’t go to a glitzy talent contest that night, if you really hadn’t meant to kill that neighbour’s kid.Yet here we have 11,000 children killed and not a word of apology, not a black arm band, not a minute of silence. Just the weaponising of anti-semitism should anyone suggest that this is not normal. And the dancing Israeli’s will keep dancing joyfully

NoCarbsForMe · 23/12/2024 23:12

Slovenia are right.

NoCarbsForMe · 23/12/2024 23:14

Gem359 · 23/12/2024 20:56

The Prime Minister has been charged with war crimes so yes they should be removed.

And we should stop selling them weapons!

Alwayslookonthe · 24/12/2024 00:27

Kindatired · 23/12/2024 22:34

Israel is probably carrying out what is technically genocide and if it doesn’t meet the technical definition of genocide, it is just a matter of semantics or a debatable point of law. Israel should not take part in the Eurovision, but they got away with it last year by cashing in on the outrage about the recent terrorist attack. Who couldn’t feel sympathy for a country that had suffered so much after all?
The Israeli government denies that it’s deliberately targeting civilians. But if you knocked down your neighbours child as you rushed to the hospital with your own sick relative , you would still be expected to stop and help the child. You would be expected to apologise and pay compensation. If the child died, you wouldn’t go to a glitzy talent contest that night, if you really hadn’t meant to kill that neighbour’s kid.Yet here we have 11,000 children killed and not a word of apology, not a black arm band, not a minute of silence. Just the weaponising of anti-semitism should anyone suggest that this is not normal. And the dancing Israeli’s will keep dancing joyfully

No it is not technically Genocide, if it cannot meet the criteria of Genocide.

Genocide is not a word we throw around because of our feelings. It isn't something we use to wantonly label a war not started by the party you are accusing.

Genocide has a meaning. It's an act with the INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group through such acts as enumerated as a-e of Art. II of the Genocide Convention.

That verbiage matters as it means the party accused of committing genocide must intend to actually destroy, in whole or in part, a protected group. This is known as a dolus specialis, or special intent. As a standard for mens rea it is quite difficult to meet as you must prove the party's intent. You cannot do that here.

Amnesty and Ireland both know this. This is why they both detailed a broadening of the intent requirement. The reason why all of this delves into antisemitism is because people are creating new standards of law to apply solely to the Jewish state and no one else.

What Ireland’s action (in seeking to broaden the intent requirement) does highlight however, is that under the current definition of Genocide along with the interpretations from precedents, Israel is NOT committing Genocide.

Lalaloveya · 24/12/2024 09:29

Alwayslookonthe · 24/12/2024 00:27

No it is not technically Genocide, if it cannot meet the criteria of Genocide.

Genocide is not a word we throw around because of our feelings. It isn't something we use to wantonly label a war not started by the party you are accusing.

Genocide has a meaning. It's an act with the INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group through such acts as enumerated as a-e of Art. II of the Genocide Convention.

That verbiage matters as it means the party accused of committing genocide must intend to actually destroy, in whole or in part, a protected group. This is known as a dolus specialis, or special intent. As a standard for mens rea it is quite difficult to meet as you must prove the party's intent. You cannot do that here.

Amnesty and Ireland both know this. This is why they both detailed a broadening of the intent requirement. The reason why all of this delves into antisemitism is because people are creating new standards of law to apply solely to the Jewish state and no one else.

What Ireland’s action (in seeking to broaden the intent requirement) does highlight however, is that under the current definition of Genocide along with the interpretations from precedents, Israel is NOT committing Genocide.

Incorrect. You need to do some reading on the subject to stop yourself spouting harmful disinformation.

Personally I don't care what it's called. Killing tens of thousands of people, displacing millions, destroying any chance of them receiving medical care, basic aid, education, shelter...it's either crimes against humanity or genocide. The name isn't that important. It's evil and barbaric either way.

ararara · 24/12/2024 10:37

no matter how many times certain individuals will claim "it's not genocide" we see through this, as do all the different organisations and bodies ICJ etc etc.

Stating it's "not genocide" does not make it true.

MissyB1 · 24/12/2024 10:39

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:13

Israel is not comparable to the apartheid regime which was a total holistic system of racial hierarchy and subjugation. Whatever issues there are with human rights and inequality in Israel it is not comparable. And if you think it is please do some research.

Apartheid exists in Israel - please do your research.

Swipe left for the next trending thread