Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

[EasterIssland]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-22/ty-article/.premium/slovenia-demands-israels-removal-from-eurovision-2025/00000193-ed37-da9f-ad9b-ed7f3d140000

Who is the pro Hamas lot

"And the dancing Israelis just keep dancing joyfully" is a pretty vile thing to say given the context of Oct 7th.

Whatever your thoughts are on the actions of Israel's government before and after, young people of various nationalities, died, were injured and sexually assaulted at a music festival dedicated to friends, love and freedom. "We will dance again" is a distressing watch.

In a post about how people should show compassion for others and take responsibility for actions even if they have suffered themselves it seems very hypocritical.

I am pretty sure you are being intentionally exceptionalist in your positioning about genocide. But in any case, taking it at face value - I refer you to Hannah Arendt. Given your obvious expertise I am sure you’ve read The Banality of Evil - her book about the trial of Adolf Eichmann which presaged all of the more contemporary discussions around the mens rea requirement for commission of mass murder equivalent to genocide. Not that it’s needed as I’m sure you are also aware given your clear immersion in the topic that there have been plenty contemporaneous genocidal statements from leading figures in the Israeli government.

This is also related to apartheid - which you’ve demonstrated works very well in your point about counterinsurgency and how it’s apparently reasonable to destroy a population in these circumstances. Apartheid creates the necessary conditions of dehumanisation of Palestinians underpinning Israel’s occupation and assault on Gaza and Palestinians. When Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant (now the subject of an international arrest warrant), ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip with “no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed”, he said: “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”

See comment at 10.39.....

@Alwayslookonthe I’d be so interested in your expert view on the contemporary discussions around a new international crime of NAKBA

@Alwayslookonthe and a final point - do you really think that law doesn’t evolve? Take the law on rape for example, it used to not allow for absence of consent within marriage. In france right now there is a huge debate on whether the law on rape is adequate following the Pelicote trial. This is how law works - it evolves and reflects societal and global values and understanding.

a) so how should he have reacted?
b) he’s expressed regret that they haven’t been able to get the hostages back, whereas Hamas has said they will return the hostages ‘in coffins’. So what’s your point?
c) People marching in London and elsewhere with Hamas-supporting flags, badges and chants of “from the river to the sea” etc.
d) the fact that so many accuse Israel of genocide and other crimes - completely ignoring far worse conflicts across the world. It’s anti-semitism dressed up as anti-Zionism. Also, writing “I’m waiting” is embarrassing.
e) because its true - see above. People only care about these conflicts with such fervour when it’s Jews who are the “aggressors”
f) No, I don’t. See the above point. Again, you’re just trying to put words in other people’s mouths
g) anti-semitism

Side point, but I have no idea why Israel and Australia are in Eurovision either.

What we need is an Intifada as demanded by the Keffiyah wearing people who turn out every weekend.

My comment is "clueless" is it???!! Have you even ever been to Israel? I have and lived and worked there for a while. I've Witnessed first hand how people live together, work together, laugh together, serve in the army together, are in parliament together in the Knesset. There are neighbourhoods, often more rural, where different ethnicities live more separately. This is natural. Is Israel perfect, of course not, but show me one country in the world that is. It is definitely more inclusive than the rest of the ME! So don't come at me with being clueless.

Well said.

Wrong board. But all true

a) so how should he have reacted?
Israel is at the forefront of the development of technology, has the USA's advanced weapons at its disposal as well has having one of the best intelligence service in the world. It isn't difficult to imagine that they could have made a different choice than dropping the equivalent of 2 nuclear bombs on a tiny area.
b) he’s expressed regret that they haven’t been able to get the hostages back, whereas Hamas has said they will return the hostages ‘in coffins’. So what’s your point?
The hostages' families and freed hostages tell you everything you need to know how Netanyahu views the hostages.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/middleeast/leaked-audio-of-heated-meeting-reveals-hostages-fury-at-netanyahu/index.html
c) People marching in London and elsewhere with Hamas-supporting flags, badges and chants of “from the river to the sea” etc.
I hope you have reported them.
d) the fact that so many accuse Israel of genocide and other crimes - completely ignoring far worse conflicts across the world. It’s anti-semitism dressed up as anti-Zionism. Also, writing “I’m waiting” is embarrassing.
You mean law experts and human right organisations? It is for them to decide what constitute a genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. It isn't for you or I, unless you are an expert in international laws.
Nice deflection too and trying to shut down debate by calling everybody who criticises the IDF/Israeli government as antisemite is unbecoming.
e) because its true - see above. People only care about these conflicts with such fervour when it’s Jews who are the “aggressors”.
Stating "because it's true" is not evidence lol. Conflating, once again, Judaism and the actions of the Israeli government/IDF is becoming embarrassing.
f) No, I don’t. See the above point. Again, you’re just trying to put words in other people’s mouths
.I asked you a question. How is that putting words into other people's mouths? Do explain.
g) anti-semitism
How can an idiom be antisemitic? Again, please. elaborate.

a) that’s ridiculous. In no way is it equivalent to two nuclear bombs. You’re reaching
b) Er, read the article you shared. They want the hostages home, obviously. He explains why that hasn’t happened.
c) Some I’ve seen in London I have
d) so some organisations have said it’s genocide? It plainly isn’t. As the UN says: “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. If Israel wanted to commit genocide then Gaza would already be destroyed and all its people dead. Neither of those things have happened. You claim it’s genocide based on a handful of opinions from organisations, yet ignore opinions from many other organisations that the root of criticism of Israel is antisemitism. You just pick and choose to suit your own prejudices.
e) Oh dear - ‘lol’? You know criticism of Israel is far in excess of other similar countries’ actions so stop lying. It’s the only Jewish state in the world, constantly attacked both physically and with rhetoric far in excess of any other nation.
f) see answer to e)
g) In response to: ‘I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.’ you responded (gleefully I might add): ‘The truth does hurt, doesn't it?’ Maybe you should just own your antisemitism

Gaza is destroyed. Did you not know this? Basically everyone in the enclave has been displaced.

a) that’s ridiculous. In no way is it equivalent to two nuclear bombs. You’re reaching
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5908/Israel-hit-Gaza-Strip-with-the-equivalent-of-two-nuclear-bombs.
A quick google will show you that, actually, it is.
b) Er, read the article you shared. They want the hostages home, obviously. He explains why that hasn’t happened.
Of course, I have read it. If the families and freed hostages tell you that they believe that Netanyahu is not doing enough, I think to doubt them is in poor taste.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2np7p1yr7o
c) Some I’ve seen in London I have
Glad you did. I would have too.
d) so some organisations have said it’s genocide? It plainly isn’t. As the UN says: “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. If Israel wanted to commit genocide then Gaza would already be destroyed and all its people dead. Neither of those things have happened. You claim it’s genocide based on a handful of opinions from organisations, yet ignore opinions from many other organisations that the root of criticism of Israel is antisemitism.
I don't claim anything, but you do. The international laws court will decide if it is genocide. I also suggest you read your quotation, the important is "whole or in part". I abs
You just pick and choose to suit your own prejudices.
Nice example of projection here.
e) Oh dear - ‘lol’? You know criticism of Israel is far in excess of other similar countries’ actions so stop lying. It’s the only Jewish state in the world, constantly attacked both physically and with rhetoric far in excess of any other nation.
Please name other countries which is deliberately starving/ withdrawing medical aids and water/ targeting journalists and aid workers/ bombing refugees' camps,
To accuse me of lying is a personal attack, which is against the rules of MN. It is also a very poor refutation of my argument.
g) In response to: ‘I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.’ you responded (gleefully I might add): ‘The truth does hurt, doesn't it?’ Maybe you should just own your antisemitism
Very serious allegation with not a shred of evidence. I am as antisemitic as I am islamophobe, racist, homophobe and so on. To honest, I am arachnophobe, So there's that.
But I am wasting my time here because "‘There’s none so blind as those who will not see’ .

I looked on Google for the apartheid state of Pakistan or Afghanistan, given the non Muslims and women live in a constant state of fear there and are being wiped out. Nothing came up. As a woman where would you rather live? Israel or any of the surrounding countries?

What has any of this got to do with a country that is being led by a man who has a warrant out for his arrest for crimes against humanity and that has been found guilty of apartheid and racial segregation in the icj and that is facing further charges in the icj, taking part in the Eurovision? Have any other the other countries taking part been found guilty of apartheid and racial segregation lately and refused to do anything about it? Have any of the other countries taking part got cases against them for what is believed to be an ongoing genocide? Do any of the other countries taking part have an elected leader with a warrant out for their arrest for crimes against humanity?

I don't believe Pakistan or Afghanistan take part in the Eurovision so can you elaborate on why you feel they are important to include in this topic of conversation?

Classic deflection! I think @YourAmplePlumPoster is wheeling out the old chestnut that Israel is apparently a bastion of western values amongst the barbarians! Aka, it’s perfectly fine to commit genocide against the natives!

OK. I get why you prefer an Intifada and Hamas and Hezbollah. Those hunky bearded guys are a turn on 🥰

@YourAmplePlumPoster no, I don’t view things in the way you do.

have you got nothing better than a rubbish straw man argument?