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Conflict in the Middle East

Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

842 replies

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 15:51

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-22/ty-article/.premium/slovenia-demands-israels-removal-from-eurovision-2025/00000193-ed37-da9f-ad9b-ed7f3d140000

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
stomachamelon · 25/12/2024 14:13

@OchaLove
Armenia?
Morocco?
Australia?

What's your thinly disguised reason for objecting to these?

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 17:52

Whatsinanamehey · 23/12/2024 19:33

Their PM can't even travel to most of Europe without being arrested so why should they be allowed to compete?

Why shouldn't they? They're members of the EBU aren't they?

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 17:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Maybe they got
Fed up with the same handful of posters posting the same old shit on every thread.

It really is an echo chamber and so out of step with real life

SuperfluousHen · 25/12/2024 18:03

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:09

Because Russia unilaterally invaded a sovreign European nation completely unprovoked. Completely different scenario.

completely unprovoked 😳

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 18:08

Yes @SuperfluousHen Completely unprovoked. But you know that, don't you

In case you're stuck

What happens in Ukraine is Ukraine's business

What happens in Ukraine is fuck all to do with their savage neighbours.

HTH

SuperfluousHen · 25/12/2024 18:11

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 18:08

Yes @SuperfluousHen Completely unprovoked. But you know that, don't you

In case you're stuck

What happens in Ukraine is Ukraine's business

What happens in Ukraine is fuck all to do with their savage neighbours.

HTH

I’d advise a watch of Alexander Mercouris daily reports for a better understanding of what’s actually happening (and has happened).

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 18:23

@SuperfluousHen Would ye, aye?

🤣🤣🤣

Alwayslookonthe · 25/12/2024 19:42

SuperfluousHen · 25/12/2024 18:11

I’d advise a watch of Alexander Mercouris daily reports for a better understanding of what’s actually happening (and has happened).

Alexander Mercouris who was disbarred from legal practice in London? The Alexander Mercouris who is a Russian apologist where Putin can do no wrong? Who is mourning the fall of Assad and who classifies Assad’s use of chemical weapons on his own people as a false flag operation by the West?

I would advise against.

SmugglersHaunt · 25/12/2024 20:25

Auvergne63 · 25/12/2024 09:07

You sound very ill informed.

Pot, kettle. You also sound incredibly patronising.

Auvergne63 · 25/12/2024 20:35

Is this your counter argument? Could you, please, refute the points I have made in response to your post?

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 21:11

Auvergne63 · 25/12/2024 20:35

Is this your counter argument? Could you, please, refute the points I have made in response to your post?

But she's right though.

EasterIssland · 25/12/2024 21:43

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 21:11

But she's right though.

Restrictions by Israel on Gaza weren’t lifted in 2005

OP posts:
stomachamelon · 25/12/2024 23:42

@SmugglersHaunt they are ‘waiting’

FizzyBisto · 25/12/2024 23:59

wholettheturnipsburn · 25/12/2024 17:52

Why shouldn't they? They're members of the EBU aren't they?

To be fair, I suppose the logical question might be to ask why they joined the EBU in the first place. Is there a reason why non-European countries would join - any more than, say, Canada would seek to join the EU or Germany would apply to participate in the Africa Cup of Nations?

I'm very willing to be corrected, as it's only my surmising; but it seems to me that the likes of Australia may have wished to join the EBU as a positive action: because they share a common language and a great deal of cultural understanding with the UK and Ireland; whereas I can't help feeling that Israel would naturally have felt unwelcome in any (mainly Arab) Middle East union, and so saw the EBU and thought "That'll do instead".

FizzyBisto · 26/12/2024 00:05

RedToothBrush · 25/12/2024 09:31

I went to Eurovision this year. Bought flights before Oct 7th. Bought tickets before the conflict had really started. It was completely overshadowed by Israel. It was really awful in the area when they performed. It put excessive pressure on the competitors. The atmosphere in the arena when Israel performed was dreadful.

I'm not particularly interested in the rights or wrongs of whether Israel should be in Eurovision - Eurovision shouldn't be about politics. It just felt like being caught in the middle of someone else's argument and that was unpleasant enough.

I have said I won't go again whilst it persists. It ruined the event and I expect protests to be bigger this year and it will be harder to avoid them (a lot of people stayed in Copenhagen whilst protests were in Malmö).

However Israel are extremely unlikely to get booted because the event's main sponsor is Israeli.

I think Israel should remove themselves in good grace if they care about Eurovision itself. But then they won't because it's a propaganda opportunity for the government.

Eurovision should be outside of politics though because it's principal is about reducing hate and that's still necessary during conflict.

But I am also not impressed at the abuse dished out by pro-palestinian groups on this either. It doesn't make me more sympathetic. I am very aware genocide is being committed. It doesn't lessen my feeling that there's innocents on both sides who actively condemn the war who are on the recieving end of abuse dished out in the name of supporting 'the cause'.

I'd also like to know exactly what happened with Joost Klein for the Netherlands, and why he got booted out at the last minute. Without the EBU having the respect and honesty to properly tell us what he was alleged to have done and the results of the following investigations, I can only wonder if he said or did something about Israel that a huge proportion of viewers would have agreed with.

It does seem bizarre in the extreme that Joost's actions were deemed totally unacceptable for remaining part of Eurovision; yet Israel retains a completely clean sheet, regardless of anything that they have done.

Saschka · 26/12/2024 00:12

stomachamelon · 25/12/2024 14:13

@OchaLove
Armenia?
Morocco?
Australia?

What's your thinly disguised reason for objecting to these?

Morocco and Australia clearly shouldn’t be in it either, honestly. Armenia - arguable, but if Turkey, Russia and Ukraine get in, Georgia and Armenia can make a case for themselves.

stomachamelon · 26/12/2024 00:40

“[Kan’s] membership of the EBU provides Israelis with significant benefits, including a role in key international events such as the Eurovision Song Contest – the best-performing TV show in Israel last year – and access to major sports rights, including the FIFA World Cup 2026, ensuring free-to-air coverage for all Israelis,”

From Google @FizzyBisto. Two reasons there.

stomachamelon · 26/12/2024 00:42

but it seems to me that the likes of Australia may have wished to join the EBU as a positive action: because they share a common language and a great deal of cultural understanding with the UK and Ireland; whereas I can't help feeling that Israel would naturally have felt unwelcome in any (mainly Arab) Middle East union, and so saw the EBU and thought "That'll do instead".

@FizzyBisto so Israel is not welcome anywhere by that logic?

wanderingstar23 · 26/12/2024 00:56

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 18:30

Yet again Israel is condemned for doing what any other nation would do under the circumstances. Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering. Why did they launch an attack on Israel while knowing the probable consequences? Again because they don’t care about Palestinians. And yet the witless fools in the west line up to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the like - one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. It beggars belief.

I’m sick of the casual antisemitism so many people on Mumsnet trundle out. They seemingly don’t care about what’s happening in countless other global conflicts. It’s the old saw of “no Jews = no news”. I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.

I am Jewish and I can tell you it’s incredibly distressing for me that it might be assumed that as a Jew, I am supportive of mass killings of Palestinian people. or that I would seek to shut down uncomfortable discussions about mass killings, collective punishment, starvation and expulsion of a people by the state of Israel with arguments like the ones trotted out by the usual suspects here. Who by the way speak for themselves not a diversity of Jewish people.

PepeJones · 26/12/2024 01:20

Alwayslookonthe · 24/12/2024 00:27

No it is not technically Genocide, if it cannot meet the criteria of Genocide.

Genocide is not a word we throw around because of our feelings. It isn't something we use to wantonly label a war not started by the party you are accusing.

Genocide has a meaning. It's an act with the INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group through such acts as enumerated as a-e of Art. II of the Genocide Convention.

That verbiage matters as it means the party accused of committing genocide must intend to actually destroy, in whole or in part, a protected group. This is known as a dolus specialis, or special intent. As a standard for mens rea it is quite difficult to meet as you must prove the party's intent. You cannot do that here.

Amnesty and Ireland both know this. This is why they both detailed a broadening of the intent requirement. The reason why all of this delves into antisemitism is because people are creating new standards of law to apply solely to the Jewish state and no one else.

What Ireland’s action (in seeking to broaden the intent requirement) does highlight however, is that under the current definition of Genocide along with the interpretations from precedents, Israel is NOT committing Genocide.

Annihilating Palestinians or forcibly relocating the entire population of Gaza to the Sinai desert has been discussed openly in Israeli politics and media for years. The prospect of doing so has been part of Israel's public discourse for decades - indeed there were plans drawn up in a policy paper discussing 'relocating' the entire population of Gaza some time before the war began.

Intent at genocide is also evident in the military tactics Israel has used. They have targeted civilian infrastructure, camps for displaced Palestinians. Most disgusting was Israel's destroying of a fertility clinic which held frozen embryos for Palestinians. This is not a just war or reasonable self defence under international law.

Allowing Israel to participate in Eurovision regardless of the suffering and disregard for humanity over 14 months is a double standard.

wanderingstar23 · 26/12/2024 01:22

The reason that Israel needs to be banned from Eurovision is because continued participation in events like Eurovision, provide a fig-leaf for what's going on, which is arguably genocide, definitely collective punishment, mass killings, forced expulsion, internal displacement, etc.

SpiritAdder · 26/12/2024 01:26

SharonEllis · 23/12/2024 16:13

Israel is not comparable to the apartheid regime which was a total holistic system of racial hierarchy and subjugation. Whatever issues there are with human rights and inequality in Israel it is not comparable. And if you think it is please do some research.

The UN’s ICJ…the international experts ruled that Israel practices apartheid on the basis of ethnicity against Palestinians. They researched and deliberated on it from December 2022-July 2024
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/19/world-court-finds-israel-responsible-apartheid

The International Court of Justice in The Hague, Netherlands, August 27, 2018.

World Court Finds Israel Responsible for Apartheid

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) issued an advisory opinion on July 19, 2024, with significant consequences for human rights protections in Palestine under Israel’s 57-year occupation. The opinion stems from a December 2022 request by the Unite...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/19/world-court-finds-israel-responsible-apartheid

mollyfolk · 26/12/2024 01:33

@I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.

I don't believe there is any Jewish about the occupation or the current war crimes by the Israeli administration. We should all call out crimes by this government without resorting to racism and at the same time criticism of the actions of Israeli state should not be conflated with antisemitism.

Anyway I don't think either country should have been banned. Too complicated. Sets a future president.

Let them compete and let people protest and draw attention to the issues.

andIsaid · 26/12/2024 01:35

TiramisuCheesecake · 23/12/2024 15:55

Eurovision is not about politics.

Allowing Israel in in the first place was entirely political.

SpiritAdder · 26/12/2024 01:36

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 20:32

Why do you bother replying if you can’t even be bothered to do basic research? Close to 180,000 people in Afghanistan died as a result of the post-9/11 war

It took 20yrs to reach that death toll.
The rate of civilian deaths in Gaza alone @40,000 per year is 4.5x higher.