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Conflict in the Middle East

Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

842 replies

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 15:51

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-22/ty-article/.premium/slovenia-demands-israels-removal-from-eurovision-2025/00000193-ed37-da9f-ad9b-ed7f3d140000

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Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 20:37

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 20:29

So you want to remove Israel from a singing competition because they’re responding to the biggest assault against Jewish people since WWII? What should Israel do in response to the Hamas attacks of 7th October in your opinion?

Not murder 67 children a day would be a bloody good start.

I won't even mention the ones left without limbs.

stormy4319trevor · 24/12/2024 20:37

On a personal note if I am ever kidnapped I expect my government to do whatever it takes to rescue me and no matter how many terrorists and sympathisers they have to kill in the process. Even if I am killed in the process that's better than being abandoned.

But do you want your government to kill and harm children, no matter how many? I am sure you would not.

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 20:40

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 20:32

Why do you bother replying if you can’t even be bothered to do basic research? Close to 180,000 people in Afghanistan died as a result of the post-9/11 war

In 20 years .

Don't worry if Israel keeps going the way that are they should surpass that target in 5.

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 20:44

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 20:40

In 20 years .

Don't worry if Israel keeps going the way that are they should surpass that target in 5.

So what should Israel do in your opinion?

Alwayslookonthe · 24/12/2024 20:53

Lalaloveya · 24/12/2024 13:21

I think the argument that Israel couldn't possibly be committing genocide because Jewish people were previously subject to a genocide is a particularly weak and frankly illogical point. I've heard Netanyahu make it too.

There is concern that under the current narrow interpretation of genocide no crimes against humanity could amount to genocide if they take place within an existing armed conflict. You are suggesting it's antisemitic to want to include such cases. That was the dangerous disinformation I alluded to.

I think the argument that Israel couldn't possibly be committing genocide because Jewish people were previously subject to a genocide is a particularly weak and frankly illogical point. I've heard Netanyahu make it too.

No, that’s not the argument. The argument is that Ireland by seeking to broaden the requirement effectively admits the ICJ case as it stands cannot be found to be genocide.

There is concern that under the current narrow interpretation of genocide no crimes against humanity could amount to genocide if they take place within an existing armed conflict. You are suggesting it's antisemitic to want to include such cases. That was the dangerous disinformation I alluded to.

No, I am saying it is antisemitic to change the interpretations or scrap them completely for the Jewish state, after the trial has already started. That is not disinformation, it is what is actually happening.

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 21:16

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 20:44

So what should Israel do in your opinion?

Realise that October 7th was a direct result of the policies of successive Israel governments to inflict pain, suffering and displacement on Palestinians and that without compromise and sacrifice from both sides this will never end.

Because thinking that October 7th happened in a vacuum and was the start of all this is naive at best.

I do not in any way support Hamas and the horrific actions of October 7th.

Lalaloveya · 24/12/2024 21:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 22:04

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 21:16

Realise that October 7th was a direct result of the policies of successive Israel governments to inflict pain, suffering and displacement on Palestinians and that without compromise and sacrifice from both sides this will never end.

Because thinking that October 7th happened in a vacuum and was the start of all this is naive at best.

I do not in any way support Hamas and the horrific actions of October 7th.

Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago. How is Israel ‘inflicting pain’ on Gazans without being there? You sound very close to justifying the actions of October 7th, just like so many others

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 22:13

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 22:04

Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago. How is Israel ‘inflicting pain’ on Gazans without being there? You sound very close to justifying the actions of October 7th, just like so many others

Define "withdrew".

Actually don't bother.It's Christmas Eve and I'm just going to do Santa for my lovely children tucked up safely in their warm beds with their full bellies .

Before bed we said a little prayer together for every child around the world who doesn't have this privilege.

And you can go back to sounding very very close to justifying why a large portion of those poor children are in Gaza.

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 22:24

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 22:13

Define "withdrew".

Actually don't bother.It's Christmas Eve and I'm just going to do Santa for my lovely children tucked up safely in their warm beds with their full bellies .

Before bed we said a little prayer together for every child around the world who doesn't have this privilege.

And you can go back to sounding very very close to justifying why a large portion of those poor children are in Gaza.

Edited

They brought all of their citizens out of Gaza in 2005. It has been self-governing since then. But you probably know know that already. I suspect you’re just being obtuse.

BadgerInDungarees · 24/12/2024 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

After watching the documentary Israelism the other day so much of what has been posted on this board over the past year makes sense now. I think people are better off just refuting any misinformation that is spread rather than wasting their time trying to get the posters who repeat the same things like 'Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005' or who deny that their is apartheid to try and see what Israel have done to Palestinians over many years. The chances of it being anyway productive is slim to none.

Martymcfly24 · 24/12/2024 22:33

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

Your absolutely correct there @BadgerInDungarees .

Totally unproductive and very frustrating.

BadgerInDungarees · 24/12/2024 22:37

On the actual topic of the thread I can't believe that this discussion has come around for another year and Israel destroying hospitals is still in the news. At this point the Eurovision isn't going to grow a set of balls so every country that doesn't feel comfortable with Israels presence whilst they have a leader with an arrest warrant for crimes against humanity and have made no action to rectify the situation in the West Bank having been found guilty of apartheid and racial segregation needs to say enough is enough and abstain.

Pebbles16 · 24/12/2024 22:54

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 22:24

They brought all of their citizens out of Gaza in 2005. It has been self-governing since then. But you probably know know that already. I suspect you’re just being obtuse.

But they've built encampments all over the West Bank, they're still invading Palestine left right and centre every fucking day of the week

OchaLove · 25/12/2024 02:35

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 18:30

Yet again Israel is condemned for doing what any other nation would do under the circumstances. Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering. Why did they launch an attack on Israel while knowing the probable consequences? Again because they don’t care about Palestinians. And yet the witless fools in the west line up to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the like - one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. It beggars belief.

I’m sick of the casual antisemitism so many people on Mumsnet trundle out. They seemingly don’t care about what’s happening in countless other global conflicts. It’s the old saw of “no Jews = no news”. I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.

"Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering."

Similar things can be said about Israel. Why Israel has Hannibal Directive? Why did they use it on Oct 7th although it would cause mass casualties of its own people? Why Netenyahu is sabotaging hostage deals if he cares about hostages? Why Israel keeps bombing areas where hostages might be present? Looking at these actions I don't think Israel cares about its own people either.

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 25/12/2024 04:29

OchaLove · 25/12/2024 02:35

"Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering."

Similar things can be said about Israel. Why Israel has Hannibal Directive? Why did they use it on Oct 7th although it would cause mass casualties of its own people? Why Netenyahu is sabotaging hostage deals if he cares about hostages? Why Israel keeps bombing areas where hostages might be present? Looking at these actions I don't think Israel cares about its own people either.

Edited

Well said. Israel also voted against a UN resolution for a ceasefire AND the release of the hostages. If the price for the return of the hostages is a ceasefire, Israel would be always against it. Israel cares more about bombing Gaza to smithereens than the hostages.

https://www.voanews.com/a/un-general-assembly-demands-immediate-gaza-ceasefire-release-of-hostages/7898418.html

UN General Assembly demands immediate Gaza ceasefire, release of hostages

Deadly Israeli airstrikes hit central, northern Gaza

https://www.voanews.com/a/un-general-assembly-demands-immediate-gaza-ceasefire-release-of-hostages/7898418.html

Auvergne63 · 25/12/2024 08:44

LetThereBeLove · 24/12/2024 18:21

It is a fact that Hamas willingly started the war on 7 October 2023.

They did but the Israel government's response of the last 14 months has been to slaughter, by any means available, over 43000 people.
The fact that Hamas inflicted horrors on Israelis does not excuse the level of cruelty the IDF has unleashed on Gazans. That was my point.

Auvergne63 · 25/12/2024 09:03

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 18:30

Yet again Israel is condemned for doing what any other nation would do under the circumstances. Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering. Why did they launch an attack on Israel while knowing the probable consequences? Again because they don’t care about Palestinians. And yet the witless fools in the west line up to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the like - one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. It beggars belief.

I’m sick of the casual antisemitism so many people on Mumsnet trundle out. They seemingly don’t care about what’s happening in countless other global conflicts. It’s the old saw of “no Jews = no news”. I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.

Yet again Israel is condemned for doing what any other nation would do under the circumstances.
I sincerely hope that my president would not react in a way that would to lead him to having a warrant for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering. Why did they launch an attack on Israel while knowing the probable consequences? Again because they don’t care about Palestinians.
You really need to keep up on what Netanyahu has said regarding the release of the hostages, hostages he cares little about, according to their families.
And yet the witless fools in the west line up to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the like - one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. It beggars belief.
Who are those "witless fools"?
I’m sick of the casual antisemitism so many people on Mumsnet trundle out.
Please provide evidence for this serious allegation. I am waiting.
They seemingly don’t care about what’s happening in countless other global conflicts.
The good old deflection!
It’s the old saw of “no Jews = no news".
Do you deliberately conflate Judaism and the actions of a far right government who views Palestinians as "human animals"? I don't.
I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.
The truth does hurt, doesn't it?

Auvergne63 · 25/12/2024 09:07

SmugglersHaunt · 24/12/2024 22:24

They brought all of their citizens out of Gaza in 2005. It has been self-governing since then. But you probably know know that already. I suspect you’re just being obtuse.

You sound very ill informed.

RedToothBrush · 25/12/2024 09:31

I went to Eurovision this year. Bought flights before Oct 7th. Bought tickets before the conflict had really started. It was completely overshadowed by Israel. It was really awful in the area when they performed. It put excessive pressure on the competitors. The atmosphere in the arena when Israel performed was dreadful.

I'm not particularly interested in the rights or wrongs of whether Israel should be in Eurovision - Eurovision shouldn't be about politics. It just felt like being caught in the middle of someone else's argument and that was unpleasant enough.

I have said I won't go again whilst it persists. It ruined the event and I expect protests to be bigger this year and it will be harder to avoid them (a lot of people stayed in Copenhagen whilst protests were in Malmö).

However Israel are extremely unlikely to get booted because the event's main sponsor is Israeli.

I think Israel should remove themselves in good grace if they care about Eurovision itself. But then they won't because it's a propaganda opportunity for the government.

Eurovision should be outside of politics though because it's principal is about reducing hate and that's still necessary during conflict.

But I am also not impressed at the abuse dished out by pro-palestinian groups on this either. It doesn't make me more sympathetic. I am very aware genocide is being committed. It doesn't lessen my feeling that there's innocents on both sides who actively condemn the war who are on the recieving end of abuse dished out in the name of supporting 'the cause'.

stomachamelon · 25/12/2024 09:44

Pot. Kettle, black.
Not sure why we can't have differing opinions without the need to be personal.

OchaLove · 25/12/2024 11:35

Why is Israel in every European contest or organization? Are they European or are they Middle Eastern? It is not in Europe geographically. If its population is European then why get upset when people say they are European colonial settlers in the Middle East.

By the way, I think Eurovision has always been about politics.

RedToothBrush · 25/12/2024 12:52

OchaLove · 25/12/2024 11:35

Why is Israel in every European contest or organization? Are they European or are they Middle Eastern? It is not in Europe geographically. If its population is European then why get upset when people say they are European colonial settlers in the Middle East.

By the way, I think Eurovision has always been about politics.

Because it's part of the European Television organisation which I forget the name of.

OchaLove · 25/12/2024 13:28

RedToothBrush · 25/12/2024 12:52

Because it's part of the European Television organisation which I forget the name of.

EBU - European Broadcasting Union.

I did search and found it, looks like for a country to attend Eurovision they must be a member of EBU. Australia is another example. Morocco has participated once.