What is going on on the left? Gaza/Israel conflict

[Notsuretoputit]

I am left wing, I wouldn’t consider myself anything other. I absolutely support Israel, have no problem understanding and supporting Zionism, and am absolutely horrified by the rising levels of anti-semitism in the UK.

It is to my despair that much of that anti-semitism is being perpetrated by those on the left. People I like, consider friends, who are tolerant and who I would never, ever have considered racist or anti-Semitic are plastering their Facebook walls with pro-Hamas TikTok propaganda. These are not teenagers naively believing propaganda, these are people who’ve spend years active in (left wing) politics.

I’ve read a lot in recent weeks about the far left’s historical problem with anti-semitism, but how can it be that nice, friendly, socially conscious people are indulging in this insane display of anti-semitism? Actively showing support for a terrorist organisation? Refusing to believe Hamas is guilty of any crimes, or that they have an excellent propaganda machine currently in operation. What is going on?

The irony.

@AdamRyan do you really think that? That's a shame. Such a valuable debate and has obviously caused friction.
Not trying to shut it down eh?

When is the last time there was any debate about "the left" stoma? As you'll see, I've been happily contributing, just passing comment that we really haven't discussed "the left" much. Apart from a few people have gone on about "Jezza fans".

Anyway, what do you think about Biden saying Netanyahu doesn't want a two state solution? Is it because Biden is a Jezza fan?

I think that Biden is warning Netanyahu that there will need to be a globally acceptable plan in place longer term. Which seems fair enough.

He's literally said that Netanyahu's government doesn't want a two state solution and they need to commit to it.
The other day when I asked about Netanyahus views I got told I was being sucked in by conspiracy theories. So just wondering what pro-Israeli government posters are making about what Biden has said?

Oh, and the UN assembly vote was interesting too. Doesn't look as if most of the world think the Israeli is being reasonable in its response in Gaza. I hope its enough to encourage a humanitarian ceasefire

er . . . Netanyahu has literally said Netanyahu's government doesn't want a two state solution.

Yes. Even the BBC matter of factly said on the news at 10 that Netanyahu doesn't want a two state solution.

Darn, I promised myself I'd keep away from posting on here.

I thought the point about US support of Israel, or the potential withdrawal of it, was not so much what money or arms they give them but rather the fact they're always present as backup in case of a wider conflagration. Iran for example knows that if it joined Hamas and Hezbollah in a properly concerted effort to destroy Israel once and fall all, it would bring the Americans in on Israel's side. I could be wrong.

I hope its enough to encourage a humanitarian ceasefire

No, it won't make any difference to the situation, not while there is still US support.

Yes absolutely I agree. The US are worried about how all this looks now and perhaps getting more worried that the current Israeli government doesn’t seem to give two hoots what the US government are saying. If there was some kind of more positive solution it would shine up the whole thing.

@SomeCatFromJapan but the question is, how much influence does Biden really have on Netanyahu?
Somebody should have kept a tally how many times US officials have mentioned the need for a two state solution since the start of the war
I'm sure must be atleast approx 50 times.
Yet despite that Netanyahu is still saying no to it

I agree with this USA support extends beyond arms and aid. They have already expanded their presence in the region.

Can you imagine how the area might erupt without the presence of a USA military there?

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/us-military-assets-in-middle-east/

Ok so do you think that in their pursue of a safe haven and their own land they have the right to expel people that already live there ? Was it an empty land ? What about palestinians rights ?

When one side is severely oppressed there is no peace and the current form and government of israel with the expansion of settlements and the oppression of palestinians will never bring peace

If you don't want hummus stop smashing the chickpeas ! Do you think israel makes it difficult or easy for hamas to recruit more members ?

They may have conflated the tankie left's other favourite Jewish contrarian Dan Cohen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Cohen_(journalist) who hangs out with Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate of Grayzone fame (must be something in the Matzoh!) Norman ploughs his own furrow and enjoys trolling Zionists as is his wont.

Think it's far more likely they had a momentary confusion with Dan Finkelstein the UK journalist

Israels has always wanted a one state, its just brazenly out in the open now

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas-war-israeli-ambassador-dismisses-notion-of-two-state-solution-for-israelis-and-palestinians-13029681

I don’t think they should go anywhere. I believe in a two state solution. Fancy answering my question?

@Struggggggling if you think that's bad this was her speech in 2015

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/israels-new-deputy-foreign-minister-this-land-is-ours-all-of-it-is-ours

Oh I know, she has always been a hideous person, it's always been there but no no it's not a genocide this is about Hamas

@Struggggggling Netanyahu has never wanted a two state solution
And he has done everything in his power to prevent that, including bolstering up Hamas.
It was under his watch that millions of Qatari dollars would pass through to Hamas in suitcases. And at the same time menial everyday items were not allowed in as part of the blockade

Tzipi hotovely is very very far right but she has one of the top positions
That should say it all really

Oh do fuck off. Posters like you have stopped it being discussion of the left by continuously derailing it.

The war this time was in retaliation to Hamas's attack on Israel.
But it seems the goal is not only to rid of Hamas but to make Gaza largely uninhabitable by destroying much of civilian infrastructure.
There has been many politicians in Israel who have openly said to this effect so not something I have pulled out of thin air.
And the statistics on how much of civilian infrastructure has been struck and destroyed supports it too.

This isn’t relevant to my question. Much like 99% of replies.