What is going on on the left? Gaza/Israel conflict

[Notsuretoputit]

I am left wing, I wouldn’t consider myself anything other. I absolutely support Israel, have no problem understanding and supporting Zionism, and am absolutely horrified by the rising levels of anti-semitism in the UK.

It is to my despair that much of that anti-semitism is being perpetrated by those on the left. People I like, consider friends, who are tolerant and who I would never, ever have considered racist or anti-Semitic are plastering their Facebook walls with pro-Hamas TikTok propaganda. These are not teenagers naively believing propaganda, these are people who’ve spend years active in (left wing) politics.

I’ve read a lot in recent weeks about the far left’s historical problem with anti-semitism, but how can it be that nice, friendly, socially conscious people are indulging in this insane display of anti-semitism? Actively showing support for a terrorist organisation? Refusing to believe Hamas is guilty of any crimes, or that they have an excellent propaganda machine currently in operation. What is going on?

I think we have to be careful in our use of the term anti-Semitism.

I am left wing. I despise Hamas as a terrorist group. I am not pro Zionism. I understand it but I don't support it. I do not support Israel in their current actions. I weep for what is happening in Gaza and would stand up for the Palestinians. This is the stance I see more of. I don't see people generally on the left supporting Hamas.

Would you call me antisemitic?

Are they supporting Hamas or the Palestinian people? There's a world of difference.

Saying that if it's the former I wouldn't be too surprised - this has been incredibly polarising. Many of my Jewish friends are posting pro-Israel propaganda saying that "no war crimes have been committed" and the UN are terrorists.

In these times it seems like people are unable to think in shades of grey - it's black or white - either you support Hamas or you support Israel unconditionally.

If you don’t support Zionism, then where do you believe the Israelis should go? Many of them have been born and raised in Israel.

They weren’t fine in October and won’t be fine in the future given Hamas’ vow to repeat those atrocities again and again.

Hamas is firing rockets into Israel now, and it is only the iron dome protecting them. Because they are not being used as human shields for their government, as Palestinian civilians are for Hamas.

Are they supporting Hamas or the Palestinian people? There's a world of difference

Many in the left are not making this difference clear … or are so keen to indulge in the latest form of virtue signalling that they haven’t thought it through. Many don’t know any history and they see the Jewish peoples as aggressors and blame the British ultimately for the current situation as part of their anti colonial stance.

I’m curious as to why you support Zionism, OP?

I agree with you Notsuretoputit Antisemitism has never been so high in my long lifetime. The war was begun by the terrorists, (Hamas) and triggered a response by Israel that has fuelled antisemitism. This has been simmering on university campuses for years paid for and encouraged by the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign.

Hamas has stated again recently that they will continue to rape and pillage as they did on October 7 until Israel is eradicated. A true genocide of the Jewish people. Again.

Israel spends money on protecting its citizens with the Iron Dome deflecting constant rocket bombardment by Hamas, (unmentioned in mainstream media) while Hamas spends its money on building tunnels underneath homes, schools and hospitals instead of supporting helpless Gazan civilians and saving them from Israeli bombardment.

Maybe to re-phrase that as I’m curious to know how you understand Zionism.

I’m still working through my own position.

It seems to be a word generally used somewhat sloppily with those against it (it is rare to find someone in support of it) not being clear what they mean by it or about it’s history.

Because I believe that Israel has a right to exist, that Jewish people should have their own nation, and that the state of Israel should be protected. Isn’t that why anyone supports Zionism?

Absolutely. How can people who otherwise have a good grasp of politics not grasp this? Is it genuinely due to anti-semitism? A desire to always always back against the UK?

I am also a Zionist. Israel is the only country in the world where antisemitism does not exist. I don't agree with much of what the rightwing Israeli Government does but I also don't agree with much of what our current government does either.

I’m not sure there are many different ways to understand it. It means supporting the existence of a Jewish state for Jewish people.

I think ‘I’m anti-Zionist’ is thrown about so frequently so that those saying it can perform their usual ‘I can be anti-Zionist but not anti-semitic’ routine. It’s just a way for people to attempt to hide their bigotry. Although I do think many simply don’t understand what Zionism is and I’m yet to have an answer that makes any sense from anyone proclaiming themselves anti-Zionist as to where they believe Israelis should go - especially given that many of these people would be (rightly) horrified to hear anyone else told to ‘go back home’ (and where is home to the Israelis who’ve been born and raised in Israel, if not Israel?)

You are a braver person than I, OP

I tried to start a similar thread but it was deleted before it even hit the ground.

I'm reeling from the gaslighting, and I'm not even Jewish/Israeli.

7 Oct clearly stated obscene, unthinkable intentions and methodologies. What happened actually keeps me awake at night - from a safe distance, from a completely different culture. What must it be like living nextdoor to these maniacs?!

I don't conflate Palestinians with Hamas, yet this keeps happening on MN. There is a lot of talk of "brown lives" being somehow "worth less" - as though Israelis are not "brown" (if we are to descend to this childish level of ignorance!).

Lots of anger about US funding, no anger about Qatar oil wealth funding what is basically a horror machine deeply embedded in civilian life.

This is simply not true.

I've noticed on a few threads if you discuss anything before 7th of October it doesn't count. People truly believe Israel has treated Palestinians equally when we know that's not the case but it doesn't matter clearly. If you mention babies and vulnerable the excuse is because hamas hides within civilians therefore it's ok.

I remember from a young age protests taking place all around the world if Israel was so moral why did those protests take place and why is it were still having them?.

Because some people would like to see the eradication of the state of Israel. That’s why.

FreedomIfSpeechBelongsToEveryone I suggest you read the accounts of the rapes of young women, burning and beheading of babies, dismembering of bodies so badly that they couldn't be identified for weeks afterwards during the pogrom joyfully enacted by Hamas and its supporters before spouting any more fantasies. Journalists who viewed the footage have stated that they will never get the images out of their minds.
This is NOT on Israel but on Islamist terrorists who use Palestinians as cannon fodder.

Yes, absolutely.

Most of these people (who I know, anyway, and those who’d call themselves left wing) would never attempt to defend ISIS or the Taliban, for example. But are falling over themselves to blame Israel for Hamas’ terrorist attack and the need for Israel’s response.

Why is it?

For me, there are uncomfortable political situations where people are treated like shit... and then there is 7 Oct, which takes things to a whole new level. I mean, a level of sick sadism that is hard to imagine in a single person, let alone a whole culture. To see it carried out by hundreds and thousands of men, and then celebrated openly in the streets, makes me feel sick. Obviously the casualties of warfare are equally appalling to see, but there is something here about deliberate intention, cruelty, misogyny, dare I use the word evil? War is evil, yes. but this is fucking ridiculous,

I am also left wing but haven’t seen any of this. None of my friends who are left wing are saying anything antisemitic and no-one is supporting Hamas over Israel. I have a lot of Jewish friends, including left wing Jewish friends and I wouldn’t tolerate any antisemitic posts. However, I am not getting my news from TikTok. I’m not saying those posts don’t exist but I haven’t seen anything. Maybe you should give yourself a break from it all, OP.

'Why is it'? Indeed. to paraphrase Sacha Baron Cohen 'is it cos I'm Jewish?' or as David Baddiel's excellent book states 'Jews Don't Count' .

The lack of condemnation around the world about the fate of young Jewish women on October 7 is abominable. Where is #MeToo when Jewish women and girls are defiled? That is antisemitism.

Sorry to have detailed your thread OP but I am so angry and sad.

I think this so called anti-semetism hysteria has gone way too far.

Do you think so?

So, when my husband and three-year-old daughter were verbally abused and heckled off a bus, were they just being hysterical?

The children's Hanukkah party we've just attended had more police outside than usual because there have been convoys of black cars driving around the neighbourhood shouting for Jews to be killed. Must be hysteria. Good to know.

The legal version of pepper spray I keep in my bag. The dirty looks we get from people in the street as they pass our window and see our Hanukkah menorahs.

Yeah, just hysteria.

Must be nice not to have experienced Anti-Semitism.

So sorry you and your family suffered this PurpleChrayne. Shalom.

In order to achieve this do you support killing thousand of civilians ? Destroying several of their buildings ? Attacking the aid that is entering in the country? Do you support that settlers can kick Palestinians out of their houses? Making up propaganda videos in order to picture all Palestinians as terrorists?

I lack critical comments about these acts in your comments and many of the left people is what they’re criticising. The way israel is trying to achieve the right to exists.