What is going on on the left? Gaza/Israel conflict

[Notsuretoputit]

I am left wing, I wouldn’t consider myself anything other. I absolutely support Israel, have no problem understanding and supporting Zionism, and am absolutely horrified by the rising levels of anti-semitism in the UK.

It is to my despair that much of that anti-semitism is being perpetrated by those on the left. People I like, consider friends, who are tolerant and who I would never, ever have considered racist or anti-Semitic are plastering their Facebook walls with pro-Hamas TikTok propaganda. These are not teenagers naively believing propaganda, these are people who’ve spend years active in (left wing) politics.

I’ve read a lot in recent weeks about the far left’s historical problem with anti-semitism, but how can it be that nice, friendly, socially conscious people are indulging in this insane display of anti-semitism? Actively showing support for a terrorist organisation? Refusing to believe Hamas is guilty of any crimes, or that they have an excellent propaganda machine currently in operation. What is going on?

I am sure at least some of these videos are verified but I will check, thank you, I don't want to post inaccurate information.

Peter Beinart wrote the following in 2019 - to explain why he thought anti-Zionism does not equate to antisemitism. Don’t agree with all his points, and some of his thinking is idealistic - but perhaps that’s why it appeals to the « left »

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/07/debunking-myth-that-anti-zionism-is-antisemitic

1. This is incorrect
2. It takes less than a minute to employ critical thought and check it
3. This is anti-Semitic. The old great conspiracy of Jewish people controlling the world.

That’s antisemitic propaganda. Reported.

So is @Livinginanotherworld on the left, the right or the center? That’s sort of the crux of my query about an example.

I know antisemtism has increased, it’s a serious problem, and yes we have just seen it in their post, but is it a problem particularly associated with the left of the political spectrum? Or is it independent of left/center/right ?

I'm totally with you OP.

Hamas is the government of Palestine. Hamas has attacked Israel over and over and over and over. Unceasing. What the pro Palestinian side never offer is what they think Israel should do exactly. Palestine has not wanted a 2 state solution. Palestine has harboured endless waves of terrorists.

Palestine is not just hedged in by Israel but by Egypt who don't want an open boarder with them either (I wonder why?) but somehow only Israel is accused of creating an open air prison.

Hamas, the Palestinian government, surrounds itself by its own civilians as humans shields. They started this war, they ended the cease fire, they are the instigator in every way but again somehow support for Israel is faltering against a poor Palestine narrative.

Israel is neighboured by Islamic countries with terrible human rights records. This is not about land - this is about values and I really wonder which values privileged middle/upper middle class young people think they share with Hamas/Hezbollah/the Syrian, Iranian Lebanese governments. The Saudi's? I would have more sympathy if the Islamic diaspora has come out in full force against Hamas and not immediately started to spout oppressor/colonizer bullshit.

No one wants innocent people to be killed (unless your Hamas). No one wants children to be killed (unless your Hamas). What do we want Israel to do? They need to win this. We sit here in relative safety and spout out righteous indignation but we need them to win this too. No one is safe in a world were Hamas and their ilk survive and thrive.

I’ve got no idea. The thread wasn’t about her.

I’ve no doubt there is anti-semitism in the centre and on the right.

But this post is about the left, and why anti-semitism is so much more rife and open than other forms of racism.

70% now? It was 90% ten minutes ago.

It’s not fact. It’s not true. It’s anti-semitism, and quite obviously so.

Can you prove that it’s not true then ?

Are you kidding? Just look at Biden’s cabinet and their religion. Divide the number of Jewish people by the size of the cabinet and multiply by 100. It’s not hard.

@Zitagreb you know that the videos you refer to are civilians? Most of Israels claims in this assault have been debunked and are Untrue. A lot of the dehumanised men in the photo have been identified - one as a journalist, one as a shopkeeper, amongst others, most civilians, men, fathers husbands and brothers and sons who were in their families in safe zones. Calling them hamas fighters is untrue.

They said this in one of their posts so don't think much debate there:

The only anti semitism in the Labour Party was the right wing fascists agenda designed to oust the socialist left wing, it was smeared, financed and engineered by the LFI, which of course has now left the UK with no opposition party.

Firstly defending antisemitism in the Labour Party by branding others in the party fascists (Please see the confirmation bias video I posted. It covers the accusation of fascism in it)

Secondly the post mentioned a smear. The very left had a smear hashtag that they regularly trolled the Jewish community with. Plus always like to mention a smear /conspiracy in their posts. Very into conspiracy theories they are. Look on social media at very left members who have been court out spreading conspiracy theories, they are numerous indeed

Thirdly they blame everyone but Jez and themselves for mucking up the Labour Party. Jez was leader he could have apologised and sorted things out etc before things got bad. However his own personality and beliefs stopped him doing that.

Lastly the very left normally write antisemitism as two separate words or at least with a hyphen. This is because the very left like say that Arabs are semitic too. Therefore they are not being antisemitisc etc. It never works because people are not semitic. Semitic is a group of languages. The nazis were the first ones to us the word antisemitism and it was to replace the phrase Judah hate. So it has always been about Jews and nobody else.

instigator in every way?

This war started in 1948 with the brutal invasion by Israel followed by continuous land expulsion, the nakba, constant settler attacks, murders, imprisonment etc..... Israel is the brutal coloniser of Palestine and its people. Just look at track record of Israel just in the last two years of atrocities in the West Bank alone, where Hamas is not present or rules. Seeing it any other way is burying your head in sand and insisting on ignoring facts because it doesn't suit your narrative and pushes you out of your comfort zone

It’s not fact. None of it.

5 of 22 is not 90%, or 70% and being Jewish doesn’t mean you’re a Zionist any more than being a Christian makes you a Russian Orthodox Christian.

Israel invaded how, exactly? Given Palestine was under British mandate?

I think you’ve replied to the wrong person but I agree.

I have my homework cut out for me. I am not all that familiar with the British left/Labour history, and thought the thread was about current affairs. You’ve said far left and very left, so it is a problem you are seeing with far left more than the left on general? And what is the far left in Britain? Is there a political party?

I did :( sorry. But yes, their figures are totally false and you are right it’s not hard to do the maths.

You're brave OP, but thank you for starting this thread. I too, no longer recognise the left anymore and I've been a Labour supporter all my life. Everything is mixed up and muddied - the left are now openly supporting the right wing factions and as such, their anti semitism ( which I struggled to believe was a real problem in the past) is now fully on display for all to see. I feel politically homeless and adrift.

Sorry I mean not the left in general but far/very left of the Labour Party. Which is what their old Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is.

The British Labour Party is made up of different types of people and views generally. However when Jeremy Corbyn was in charge a few years ago members that were very left leaning and tended to be iffy about Jews caused a lot of damage to the party. Corbyn himself didn't stop this happening and infact refused to apologise even when it was investigated.

Anyway yes this is a thread about current events and the Labour Party (The OP means the very /far left). However you asked what the other poster was politically, so I explained what they were and how you can tell because it stems back to the Cobyn leadership days of the Labour Party

Op what is your opinion of the violent land grabbing in the West Bank?

I have seen so many posters saying the same thing as you on mumsnet and heard people say it too in real life

Hopefully the Labour Party can fix itself at some point because yes voting wise what are we all going to do