Holy Land, next Europe and America are next

[WereNext]

According to the Israeli PM. Do you believe this? And if you do, what's your background in geopolitics, level of education and religious belief. Does Hamas = Isis? Or are Hamas the equivalent of the mafia?

As much as I abhor the bombing in Gaza, is this realistic, that we protest and hope that we are not next?

And is the deterioration of western, Christian values a result of our vulnerabilities? Israel attacked, and Russia and China muscling us up on that and have taken their chances because we, the west, ARE weak. ??

😫

The "fancy" academics will no doubt be discussing 7/10 in future papers. The point is Israel is fooling no one with its "security measures" rhetoric, and the world doesn't need any academic research to prove that. The actions and words of the government over the last 75 years has spoken much louder.

Hamas and Isis are completely different organisations aren’t they? Hamas are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and Isis were formed during the Iraq war.

Hamas presumably doesn’t have the wherewithal to take out Israel (as in destroying it or invading it) or it would of done it by now so I think a hostile take one of the west is unlikely?

Your description fits exactly what the IDF are doing.

My thoughts exactly.

Alcemeg, I certainly think of everyone that son of the Hamas leader is likely to be right and I support Israel in this.

@Louloulouenna , if you can feign such shock about my previous post, I’ll take some of what you’ve been having.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, excuses the Israeli response.
@Alcemeg, nope, not odd at all.

Xenia I'm a MN lifer and whilst your posts are often a tad out there, I usually find them very endearing. You have completely shown another facet of your persona through these threads though. You are supposed to be an educated woman and an officer of the legal system, but all you've done is quote the Daily Mail and responded to any criticism with the most shocking Islamophobia. You sound like some sort of EDL bot, you really peaked in a thread last night. I really hope you don't have any Muslim clients as I doubt with such levels of prejudice that you'd be able to act fairly 😔

I think that misrepresents my posts. I simply support Israel. I am not against Islam. It is ilke saying no one educated can vote Tory or you have to be XYZ to be intelligent. I don't think those comments are ever correct. Eg I voted Remain but I have never suggested Brexiteers are stupid as that is half the country and they are not - they simply have a different view. I have welcomed those arab countries that have recently recognised the state of Israel. There is much hope for peace or there had bene in the region until Hamas got too worried about Israel and Saudia Arabia becoming friends so decided to destroy its own people in the manner in effect of an ISIS suicide bomber on a national scale.

By all means quote here any post for my comments - I doubt I have appeared as an EDL bot. . MN is allowing those of us who support Isreal to post, thankfully although it is getting quite hard due to sheer weight of numbers.
It remains lawful to say democracy is the best system on the planet. That is not white privilege. That is a fact. I presume most of the 67m people in the UK want democracy to continue, elections etc. rather than dictatorship or theocracy so in that sense I have the majority view.

There is no problem whatsoever with you saying you support Israel. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and free speech. There's nothing 'uneducated' about that. But you haven't done that, you've said that and then followed it up with the most horrible Islamophobic references that have got nothing to do with the thread. I'm embarrassed on your behalf. And I'm not sifting through your posts, they are there for everyone to read. And I totally believe in free speech, but you are using your support of Israel as a masquerade of your anti Muslim feelings. You aren't the only one BTW, but you have shocked me.

What classes as Islamophobia @feralunderclass ?

is it Islamophobia to say that Islam has some quite murderous doctrines?

Xenia : was asked by Saudi was a nasty country. Do we really need to expand on that? I thought it was obvious - princesses held without trial when they try to escape, murders with body chopped into parts of a journalist, women's rights nothing like those given to women in Israel, US, UK. No elections.
so you are anti Saudi here , but on another thread you are kind of cheering them for wanting to normalise relations with Isreal?
, you are contradicting yourself,
What if they fix all these issues , <which they are doing so btw>and not normalise relations with Isreal? Would you still call them a nasty country ?
it’s so confusing reading your posts.

Murder is a sin in Islam.

"Do not kill a soul [whose life] Allah has made inviolable, except with due cause, and whoever is killed wrongfully, we have certainly given his heir an authority. But let him not commit any excess in killing [the murderer], for he has been assisted [by law]."

Soul applies to all, Muslim and non-Muslim, every human being.

I don't quite get what you're implying, as plenty of Muslims follow their religion on a daily basis. They don't have to hold back an urge to murder. They are people with a different religion, that's it. Every religion will have extremists in some sense, who twist it and don't represent that religion at all.
It's a shame that this has to be said, really.

is it Islamophobia to say that Islam has some quite murderous doctrines?

You never know. Bear in mind its apparently antisemitic to say Israel has committed war crimes and is an occupying power.

It has been years since I've practised, I decided to not follow any religion and have now been non-religuous for more years than I actually had one.

@Fairtobefairohhhhhc is very knowledgeable and is able to explain things better than me. Sorry for the tag Fair, if you're taking a break from MN or don't want to post on this thread, please feel free to ignore!

I'm not sure if that is true, but personally I don't think there's anything 'phobic' about pointing out factual stuff that is in any religious text. I think it is factually correct for example to point out that the Bible contains incest, incitation for murder, head coverings for women etc and I don't think it's fair to say that's anti Christian. The same for Islam and Judaism, or any other faith.

But some posters have been attempting to stand for/defend Israel's actions by juxtaposing it with anti Muslim sentiment. Eg

Poster 1: Israel treats Palestinians unfairly
Poster 2: have you tried being gay in Saudi Arabia?!

Or, as Xenia was juxtaposing Jewish people against "people from desert nations... From countries where there is a 98% FGM rate.... Not holding British values".

I don't personally think it's Islamophobic to acknowledge that homosexuality is forbidden in shariah law, or other facts. It's the way that these facts are used, especially when they are used completely out of context which illustrates that they are using their anti Muslim feeling to try to prove a completely unrelated point about the other.

A prime example was me pointing out that Jewish people in Israel are not a homogenous mass, there are people with no religious beliefs, some with very extreme beliefs and everything in between and that gay people would not be welcome in some areas (this was in response to someone saying "at least gays are welcome in Israel"). Someone quoted me, saying "plenty of homophobes in Tower Hamlets". I consider this to be a homophobic response because a) we weren't even talking about Muslims, and 2) Tower Hamlets has a high Muslim population, so poster was obviously inferring that Muslims are homophobic, which had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

I've reported posts that I believe have antisemitic undertones and I'm doing the same now for Islamophobic ones. The vast majority of pro Israel posts now can only 'defend' Israel by attacking Muslim beliefs.

@ChickHenLittle I have had a quick scroll through. But I think it would be pointless for me to attempt to explain anything.

To be honest I don't care if something is or isn't islamaphobic. I practice, I'm at peace and couldn't give a flying monkeys what anyone thinks about it. If they want to say something classed as islamaphoc they can. It's often an attempt to get those who practice outraged, to then justify whatever it is they said.

I'm not saying anyone on here has been islamaphic as I haven't read all the way through.

Sorry that wasn't a very helpful response.

The problem is people quote religious scriptures, or rather part of, and I mean from all religions, ti suit their narrative. So the text they refer to might be to do with something completely different but they will apply it to their argument and miss put the before and after which has more depth, meaning and or actually shows the basis for what was said.

I gave up explaining to people a long time ago.
If they aree really interested and want to know they can look for themselves.

Sorry! Not helpful at all!!

@Fairtobefairohhhhhc Don't be sorry! I sometimes struggle to tell if people are genuinely interested or if there's an underlying reason. I don't mind answering some genuine questions (if I can), but do agree it isn't up to anyone to have to explain.

I don't post as much myself at times due to some of the things I come across on here (even the news is almost too difficult to read).

I have 'common sense' too but I disagree with your view.

My common sense view is based on many years of working in aid and development and seeing up close how Hamas operates.

This absolutely is a war based on religious ideology but you have to live and work within the context to begin to get your head around it. Lots of people think their view is 'common sense' but it's often based on posts they see on Facebook and TikTok.

I don't agre that you can only support Israel by being anti muslim. My first and main reason to say Israel is justified has been in my posts since day 1 - that look at what we think is right in war - WWII dropipng the H bomb, carpet bombing Dresden - this is what war is, this is how democracies react if attacked. It is not nice or pretty.

It is true that I have said democracy is better than dictatorship or theocracy. I have also mentioned countries with 98% FMG rate. I don't think stating facts is wrong. I was very surprised someone said something along the lines of what is wrong with Saudi however! Is that a general view in the UK that we think that regime is a good one? Most women think it is a terrible regime. I am just interest to see support here.

I agree that I would give Saudi a small tick if it recognised the state of Israel. that does not mean it goes on a best friends list given the other terrible ways it rules, the treatment of women and much else. I don't think being anti Saudi is a UK hate crime. it is a basic wonderful moral response to a dreadful regime.

So did you work in Palestine?

@Xenia it’s bizarre to me that people seem to not understand how horrendous war is and how how horrific the civilian casualties are.

Presumably Hippy , civilian casualties don’t matter in Ukraine either because it’s a war you know, killing people is ok.
Xenia is a well known islamophobe. The idea that genocide is ok in Gaza because they have different values to the west highlights this. The reason Isreal appears to have western values is because many of them originated from western countries so no surprise there.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead"

Ukraine didn’t start the war, Russia did.

Russia like any invading power believes it has a legitimate reason for what it does.