Holy Land, next Europe and America are next

[WereNext]

According to the Israeli PM. Do you believe this? And if you do, what's your background in geopolitics, level of education and religious belief. Does Hamas = Isis? Or are Hamas the equivalent of the mafia?

As much as I abhor the bombing in Gaza, is this realistic, that we protest and hope that we are not next?

And is the deterioration of western, Christian values a result of our vulnerabilities? Israel attacked, and Russia and China muscling us up on that and have taken their chances because we, the west, ARE weak. ??

😫

Hear hear @Xenia

I don't accept that Israel pinkwashes because gay rights actually exist there and haven't merely been made up for propaganda purposes. Do Queers for Palestine actually think there is a moral equivalence between pinkwashing and pinksplatting or pinkchopping? (Or whatever you'd like to call how jihadis treat gay men.) It's another example of Jews being condemned even if they do good things, because it can only be part of some dastardly plan.

@EsmaCannonball , who said pinkwashing had anything to do with Jews?
And please do not speak about queer rights in the Middle East - it's clear from most of your comments that you have little if any experience of life in Arab or Muslim countries - if you did, you wouldn't be making such gross generalisations all the time.

Likewise, do not generalise about Israel being some amazing refuge for LGBTQ communities - we know that not all Israelis have the same view on this - certainly the current government is very un-friendly to LGBTQ interests.

Israel is a beacon of hope in a sea around it of pretty nasty countries like Iran and Saudi.

We have all seen what happens when The US starts "Exporting Democracy"

and can you point Iran on the map? It’s no where near Isreal , and if countries like Syria or Lebanon have factions that are pro Iran who are we to judge that , it’s been these people’s land for centuries , you can’t just force them to change because a relatively new country isn’t at ease being in close proximity to them.

Agree @Xenia

But also to the above. I voted remain, can’t stand Trump and would never have voted for him. I still however agree with @Xenia

This idea that there is this Trump/Brexit voting ill informed dangerous, silent hive mind is a huge part of the mess we are in, why Trump and Brexit was so shocking. The patronisation and arrogance of we “just need to unpick” those foolish beliefs is remarkable. Never a moments consideration that it is YOU and your gang who might have got it wrong. Never a thought that it’s likely this all lands somewhere in the middle as almost all controversial matters do. The more you lecture, the more entrenched you become, the more people who are perfectly capable of thinking critically will move away from you and I would say I can’t wait for that to happen but I can because these things never do end well.

Reading your post feels like watching North Korean TV talking about Kim Jong Un.

A beacon of hope 😂

The most ludicrous statement!

😂😂😂

An interesting development in the propaganda war is that the IDF spokesmen are now using Hamas-ISIS as a description.Not just Hamas.
Pushing the idea that Europe/USA/Australia et al are facing the same global threat.
The Muslim bogeyman with a bomb in one hand and a Sharia law scimitar in the other, with an oppressed, burqa-clad woman under foot.
An image that so many in the non-Islamic world see as real.

Their lies are so disgusting, yet so predictable.

Oh my God @feralunderclass !!! Your post needs a thread by itself!

How can the world be silent about that! I always knew about the apartheid in Israel, which is not hard to see for anyone who bothers looking, but I didn't know how much depraved and brazen it was!

I truly felt sick to my stomach reading what you said. And the treatment of the poor girl!!! 😡😡😡

Not allowing anyone interested in human rights to enter through BG Airport tells you everything.

"That's why I get so triggered when I hear posters on here calling other Jewish posters "antisemites" or "nuts" if they speak against the 'allowed' rhetoric. Even to have speech suppressed feels so oppressive."
I feel exactly the same.

Oh I am furious at the hypocrisy of the West and how they are allowing the monsters to have free rein!!! 😡

I might come back later but honestly your testimony just froze my brain and I can't find the words to say what I feel.😡

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and please accept my utter respect for the work you did/ do in Palestine.

it's clear from most of your comments that you have little if any experience of life in Arab or Muslim countries

Most people don’t. So their views are shaped by the media and by terrorist episodes and alerts in Europe. Othering again.
I was in London last week, and there was a warning on the Underground about suspicious packages. And the men opposite me started grumbling about ‘Bloody Muslim nutters’ It’s easy to generate hate built on a basis of fear.

"Most people don’t. So their views are shaped by the media and by terrorist episodes and alerts in Europe. Othering again." -@Cattiwampus

I recognise and understand that, but it's one thing for someone to not know and admit it, and another thing to not know and then go and speak with authority as if they do. That's how misinformation spreads.

Catti and Beth, I agree with Beth. To say all supporters of democracies and of Israel means that you must have voted Brexit is pushing people into little boxes. I voted Remain. I support Israel. It is not some wicked awful discriminatory thing to want to preserve Western democracies, our freedoms to support or be against Israel. it is a wonderful thing. It is why people flock to the UK precisely because we are not living as women do in Iran.

@feralunderclass 's statement will ring true to anybody who's had any experience traveling to the West Bank. It's actually very typical and ordinary unfortunately. You've obviously never been to the West Bank.

In my post I didn't talk about the Middle East or Muslims, I very specifically said jihadis. Anyway, what is the difference between Hamas and ISIS? They are both jihadist groups. They have both stated the same aims. Hamas have now adopted the same methods and said that they will now be their way forward. Ex-ISIS/ISIL fighters have been moving into southern Syria in recent weeks, waiting to see how the war between Israel and Gaza pans out. Clue: they are not waiting to join in on Israel's side.

I also find it interesting that Israel is under constant threat of terrorist attack or atrocity and so has to adopt ultra-tight security measures but then those security measures it has been forced to adopt are immediately labelled as wantonly cruel acts that exist for no reason or apartheid. Just as one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, one person's security border is another person's apartheid wall.

@Ohlalalalala I could literally write a thread, the scenes in Gaza have surfaced a lot of traumatic memories, it really is heartbreaking.
I won't go into it too much, but the idea of Israel being some sort of panacea for gay people is almost laughable. Israel and its inhabitants are not a homogenous mass of people who hold the same ideas. One of the things that makes it a fascinating place is that it is made up of micro communities (and this is obviously more pronounced outside of big cities) where there is a lot of conformity and little room for free thinking. You have neighbourhoods or "communities" where most people are secular and ones where a woman in short sleeves will be spat on for being "slutty". I don't need to tell you that being gay in these areas is certainly not going to be embraced. If you look online at estate agents it will give you the 'type' of Jew that is suitable to live there, based on your level of religiosity. Some communities you need to apply and be interviewed before you are given permission to live there. I believe that is the same in some communities in US.

Can I ask why you think saudi is a nasty country?

There are many academic studies that discuss whether or not Israel must adopt the security measures it does in order to keep its people safe, OR are these measures there to demarcate Israelis from Palestinians and punish them? The vast majority point to the latter. Israel hates critical academia for this reason, and academics have been smited with the "antisemitic" label. When I was writing up my thesis my supervisor told me not to refer to "Jews" or "Jewish people" as the institute could be held liable. I was to call them "Israelis" even though not all Israelis are Jewish.

Look at the Landau Report, which is basically a legalised torture manual, but Israel refer to it as "moderate physical pressure". The manual itself and the prescribed 'exercises' is secret, but detainees have consistently described the same methods being used again and again, which do constitute 'torture' under international law.

@Xenia

This isn’t the first time you comment that Israel is the only worthy country in the ME and that all the other countries in the ME are nasty. This is blatant racism, shame on you.

@feralunderclass gay people and women perceived to be “slutty” also face abuse and insults in some places in the UK. I saw it repeatedly when I lived in Tower Hamlets.

I don't know Tower Hamlets is relevant to the discussion of homosexuals in Israel? I'm very aware they are discriminated against world wide.

@Louloulouenna sorry I've just realized you are trying to defend Israel and it's not so gay friendly communities by parallelling it with Tower Hamlets, where there is a significant Muslim population. Again, not relevant to the point of discussion, but at least it makes your Islamophobia clear.

Yes, I’m gay and a woman so I probably am as phobic about Islam as I am about evangelical Christianity and ultra Orthodox Judaism.