Holy Land, next Europe and America are next

[WereNext]

According to the Israeli PM. Do you believe this? And if you do, what's your background in geopolitics, level of education and religious belief. Does Hamas = Isis? Or are Hamas the equivalent of the mafia?

As much as I abhor the bombing in Gaza, is this realistic, that we protest and hope that we are not next?

And is the deterioration of western, Christian values a result of our vulnerabilities? Israel attacked, and Russia and China muscling us up on that and have taken their chances because we, the west, ARE weak. ??

😫

Yes this basically.

Anyway, they won't come for us in the West, we have superior military capability,so it would be pointless for them to go to war with us.

Terrorist attacks are here to stay though.

This is what I don't understand. Whats the difference between a pause and a ceasefire?

A humanitarian pause stops the violence to let aid in. Then it will continue at some poin.
A ceasefire stops the violence completely.
Our spineless PM is still saying he supports Israel and framing it as "self defence". He won't call for a ceasefire. Now being booed in the House of Commons for his stance as well as being on the wrong side of public opinion.

A ceasefire stops the violence completely.

Ah ok.

So how would Israel benefit from that then?

This. It’s coming here and when it does I’ll be interested to see if there’ll be righteous calling for ceasefires and peace here on MN that there was from ONE day after the atrocities committed on 7/10, with hostages still not returned to this day.

It most certainly IS obvious that Hamas are not capable of taking over the entire world. They couldn't even run their own country properly.

Why do they need to benefit? Right now it's to stop the IDF from murdering yet more civilians, attacking hospitals and destroying Gaza.
It then paves the way, ideally, for peace talks, hopefully supported by other world leaders.
The IDF need to be stopped, that's the immediate concern.

Yeah it was a typo

"When it does"?

You think Hamas in particular will have such a big effect? They aren't going to travel to the UK.
There is a threat of lone wolf and smaller terror cell attacks, but as you can see, that has been the situation for a while. We've been at this threat level or higher for years.

Too many mumsnetters thinking with their emotions and not applying any reason or logic here - In order for a ceasefire both sides need to agree. I can easily see Hamas agreeing because it means they've achieved their aims of the October attack, plus their country will stop being bombed. Israel however, have little to gain from a ceasefire because that would leave Hamas in power and Israel would be right back where they started from.

I really don't think this is going to stop until Israel destroy Hamas and I think the best its going to get is a quick victory for Israel then it will all be over.

Peace talks like the Israel/Saudi Arabia talks that was the reason Hamas murdered babies and other innocents in the most despicable ways on 7 October to stop those same talks?

Yes, peace talks. You got it.

@Lifesd Like people who live in the Middle East transcribe to terrorist ideologies?

what a weak and invalid argument

Firstly, there seems to be this strange tendency in the West not to take the statements of Islamofascists at face value. Someone from Hamas or Hezbollah will say, 'We are going to create a worldwide caliphate, we are going to invade your countries and kill everyone who fails to convert.' and people in the West will say, 'Oh, but they don't really mean it. They are just saying that to be frightening and, anyway, it's not really about religion.'

Secondly, while I doubt that Hamas will be taking over America any time soon, there is a shift in the world order happening. Russia, China, Iran, Syria, North Korea and others are aligning, they have shown that there are no depths to which they will not sink, and people should be very worried about what this might mean for the future. Even more concerning is the amount of people in the West who look at Russia, Iran etc., and think, 'Yeah, that's the side I want to be on. I wish Britain/America was more like that.' (And we have got to 'pick a side' time.)

Because Hamas clearly want peace and respond so well to peace initiatives as demonstrated so recently. 🙄

@tescocreditcard yes then it will all be over, killing of many more thousands of innocent children, human beings in case you didn’t know. Their deaths will be over be quickly in the best possible scenario and the rest will be burned amputees crushed to death over a number of days but yes quickly over

the U.K. was complicit in South Africa’s apartheid, the ANC fought back tooth and nail for equality. Nothing more, simply equality and at the time we all deemed them terrorists. Palestine have asked for the same thing but no one cares. Ask yourself why?

why did the racists go against the ANC and support an apartheid in SA and why are all
of these people going against it now and for 75+ years in Palestine?

Lots of wild claims about terrorism coming to U.K. shores. I think the IDF has enough on their plates destroying hospitals, inpatients, clinicians and anyone who thought they would be safe there under the usual rules of war. Unless Hamas is found to be lurking around the middle aisle of Aldi in which case they will have to bomb the crap of your whole town.

Don't forget the IDF and their string of constant (proven) lies. I wouldn't trust either if I'm honest.

@EsmaCannonball haven’t U.K. and USA combined commuted the biggest crimes in history? Think about it, they are colonisers and encourage others to do the same whilst pretending to be civilised

but of course you stick to your narrative and take your denial pill.

if we don’t stop treating people the way we have been, and yes I say we because I am ashamed to say I have been blind until I started researching myself, of course they are all going to turn on us. I do not want that but this needs to stop and it needs to start with us.

Why is it that British was able to get their kids out in the wars and most recently Ukraine sent their children to safer areas.

why is it that children in gaza are trapped there - not allowed to leave?

does no one see the hypocrisy of this? I don’t care about the IDF of Hamas but seeing all those children die but Israel refusing to allow Egypt open its borders is telling.

it’s clear all lives are not the same value

Depends what you mean about the biggest crimes in history. There can't be many countries free of historical crimes. Why do you think so many of the countries in the world are Islamic? The answer is: because they were very violently colonised. Europe has spent most of its history resisting or being colonised from the East. Slavery from Africa into the Middle East was a massive endeavour and continued well into the twentieth century, only being outlawed in some places in the 1970's. Russia and China are effectively colonising parts of Africa now. The Wagner Group is massacring whole villages of people because Russian kleptocrats want their resources. I do think current Western values are better than the values of Putin and Assad and Hamas, and that instead of navel-gazing about the wrongs of the past, of which every country is guilty, we need to think about where the world is going.

Thank you! I agree, the UK and USA have commuted crimes against humanity committed by others.

@Tigerteal Who said people in the Middle East subscribe to terrorist ideology?

Unfortunately they do not live in democracies. Also unfortunately the Arab world could end the suffering on the Palestinians tomorrow but they won’t.

Great post @EsmaCannonball - the apparent sympathy and excusing of Hamas on here has shocked me.

The problem with this is two fold.

First off Hamas, named as Hamas may not exist again but no doubt there will be another movement/ uprising/ resistance simply because of what has happened and now this resistance will have both financial and personnel support because of the number of angry people with nothing to lose this conflict has created.

Secondly the real powers and brains of Hamas aren’t in Gaza and despite what Israel wants to say no one is going Israelis free reign to come into their countries to look for them.

The other point is then what? Israel will not be able to take possession of Gaza as even US big brother has said no to that but what then happens here? It is difficult to see a resistance not catching flight after this and what is happening is West Bank.

And we all know that Israel claims Hamas is hiding in every school, hospital, shelter, camp, home. So, basically they have to kill all the Palestinian civilians, then once the land is cleared they will destroy Hamas. If there is any Hamas left to kill, because they claim they know very little about them and their hideouts, but it’s ok let just obliterate the whole land and hope Hamas members die too.