Why is Israeli bombing refugee camps in Gaza?

[elephantblock]

Dozens dead

Why did Hamas storm and murder people at a concert?

How anyone can watch this and not condemn what Israel is doing is beyond me. To see people try to justify it beggars belief. It makes me question humanity.

What Hamas did on 7/10 was utterly horrific and inexcusable. It does not condone the sustained attack on Palestinian civilians for nearly a month. That is also horrific and inexcusable but it is ongoing. Israel needs to stop.

Not stop defending itself when necessary, but that isn't what it is doing anymore. But stop the collective punishment of Palestinian people.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

Let's take a moment to remember the death and injury statistics from 2008 - 2020.

It's devastating
This is a woman who sits by some of the bodies who were murdered in the camp yesterday
They mostly can't even do individual funerals anymore

They are all buried in a mass grave

The Hamas attacks were atrocious. But as has been stated by the UN, the attacks “did not happen in a vacuum…The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.”

If I saw first-hand my friends, generations of relatives and brethren be murdered, exiled and oppressed by Israel for decades I’d be pretty angry too.

Distance, denigrating and othering of Palestinians is key here, to paint them as barbarians. I doubt many on this thread have ever even met a Palestinian, though they would have met Israelis.

I deplore the actions of Hamas but the continuous war crimes and collective punishment by Israel against 2.2m people are not justified even though the deplorable festival incident happened.

I'm siding with the UN, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch here. And I do not accept your smears against them.

Melanie Phillips has just been on the radio saying that the west needs to stop funding and supporting Palestine. Nobody asked for any clarification from her.

Biden and Sunak physically went to Israel to offer support and they continue to do so.

Phillips is a hugely informed person and I know almost nothing about this conflict so I can't assume she's chatting shit. But is she?

I'm not a bot or a phoney wide eyed 'help me understand' type. I'm a long standing poster and a very ordinary middle aged woman with no religious affiliation at all.

Does the west fund and support Palestine in it's military aims against Israel?

My son in law is Palestinian and grew up in Jordan; his parents were refugees from the West Bank. He is probably the most honourable and decent man I've ever met and my heart breaks for him at the moment. He has many relatives in Gaza, as well as the Wear Bank, and is getting increasingly worried about the war spreading and his mother's safety in Amman. He said that there was a growing feeling that a major incident was likely to happen which was the reason he and my daughter moved to Turkey last year. He also wanted to get away from the severe racism that he had always experienced as a Palestinian in Jordan and mistakenly thought that would be better in Istanbul. Palestinians seem to experience as much discrimination as any other group, if not more.

Melanie Phillips has always been an unpleasant racist, regarding Palestine and its people. Some of the things she's written in the Mail, over the years, would have had her in prison, if she'd said it about Africans, for example.

heartbreaking, I am so sad for him and his family.

Melanie Phillips vocally supports Suella Braverman’s attack on migrants and multiculturalism in the UK. She blamed the NHS for causing the Lucy Letby murders by being too ‘feminist’. You can see where she stands politically and morally.

To say she’s being disingenuous regarding Palestine and Israel is generous. Her rationale is she wants to cut all international humanitarian aid to Palestine by branding every Palestinian a “terrorist”.

The UK is one of Israel’s biggest allies and sells them millions of pounds’ worth of arms every year. They’re made at Elbit Systems. There are protests happening outside Elbit’s UK sites (Kent, Bristol, headquarters in London). It’s made the news.

We don’t sell any arms to Palestine.

She’s on a par with people in these threads calling Israel “civilised” and the Palestinians just barbarians.

Civilisation and democracy to them looks like sitting drinking cocktails on a beach while ignoring the Palestinian kids getting shot on theirs.
https://www.channel4.com/news/israel-strike-kills-four-boys-on-gaza-beach-video

It has been well known for years that many countries, Israel included, pay people to post on social media to sway opinion.
China has the "50 cent party"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896

MN, Reddit, Daily Mail comments section.... nowhere is immune to it. Online propaganda is a fact of modern life. Some of these accounts will have been around for many years, they will also post mundane content, they are not identifiable. Imagine Moneypenny and her posts on the relationships board.

yes it's so obvious with the circular war-crime denying posts we see on so many of these threads, derailing the original point with propaganda and refusing to recognise or condemn war crimes. total gaslighting. And I see the same posters over and over again on every thread expressing concern for the plight of Palestinians. And it's so casually done as well, never addressing the original point.

Because they are terrorists?

And ideology etc

See also Isis, IRA etc

Peace process and lasting peace comes through dialogue

Even in times of ‘peace’, Israel has continued to murder innocent Palestinians. See the incidents with settlers on the West Bank, for instance. The Israeli government just shrugs its shoulders. Obama has called them out on this recently.

There can be no lasting peace when one side intrinsically considers the others nothing but “animals” to be slaughtered and removed.

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Hamas just said they don't want a ceasefire. They want to repeat October 7 and kill and rape and behead every Israeli. I was supportive of a humanitarian pause but I don't really think that is viable now.

If someone said they wanted to rape, kill, behead every Briton, I would be very angry at our government if they decided to stop attacking those nutters.

According to Wikipedia she’s an Israel supporter and opponent of gay rights. Her opinion to me means nothing

Palestinians seem like the bravest people on earth to me, for al the reasons you state @Horrificallyuntidy They are also intelligent, cultured, compassionate and would probably share their last meal with you - such is their hospitality. I don't think the world cam allow these people to be wiped out.

Yes exactly this it seems. They just hide behind “Hamas were hiding there and not our fault they used the innocent Palestinian civilians as human shields” narrative. The world knows it’s bullshit now, but what can anyone do?
If Hamas was hiding in a densely populated Israeli territory with innocent Israeli civilians, they would use special operations to dig them out, not flatten the whole place.
It’s becoming more and more clear that Palestinians are just not seen as worthy humans with any rights and that murdering them in the hundreds and thousands is ok as long as a handful of Hamas members are killed.

Can I have a link ? Keen to read more about this please. Thanks!

In support of @EasterIssland comment, people are tired remember they’ve been having reduced food and liquid for 3 weeks now. The roads are impassable so moving again means walking for hours and they just don’t have the energy.

For the “but Hamas” screamers look at the instagram accounts of people on the ground in Gaza they’ve all lost weight, they all look exhausted, their eyes look gaunt.

I watched a story yesterday of a woman who’d just given birth to twins 10 days ago and they were asking how she was re their birth. Her response should resonate with every mother here, they had to get up and go she couldn’t take the baby stuff they had ordered, they couldn’t take their other things etc they just had to leave their home and then it was bombed. So they got out with the clothes on their back and their children.

Yes, I think a lot of us have been absolutely amazed at their resilience, faith and courage. A lot of people world wide have nothing but admiration for the Palestinian people, whereas before were totally oblivious or ignorant. I feel ashamed I was one of them.
The tens of thousands of people (from all walks of life) protesting here and across the globe are proof of how people have stopped believing the propaganda and lies coming from Israel and the politicians in countries like the US and U.K.
people have chosen to be on the right side of history and no longer believe their lies. We can’t do much, but we can certainly speak the truth which is blatantly obvious to everyone now. Israel is killing children and women and the elderly. The war is disproportionate, they are murdering children with bombs and weapons and all they have are stones and sticks to defend themselves. They tell them to evacuate areas and go to refugee camps/shelters and within hours they bomb them. This has happened so many times in the last few days. They tell them to leave and then as they are doing so, they murder them.
I still cannot believe a whole army in Israel is destroying a nation who have no army, weapons and are literally all kids. What a brave army the Israelis have!