"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.

[feralunderclass]

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land, and they still wouldn't accept a two state solution".

A poster said this on another thread and I literally can't get this out of my head. It's probably the best (and worst) case of gaslighting hasbara I have seen on any of the threads.

Just incase anyone has the notion that Gazans were reclining on their sunloungers, admiring the sea views from their luxury penthouse apartments, this is a thread to discuss life in Gaza pre 7/10.

Some facts:

Gaza fact sheet

A very disturbing account in today's Private Eye of the brutality and torture that Hamas has inflicted on the people of Gaza for years. (See attached)

It concludes that Hamas has practised its brutality on the people of Gaza for years, and has now turned them into not only human shields but weapons, hoping to use their deaths to bring about the destruction of Israel.

It is upsetting but important to understand how people in Gaza have been living under Hamas.

A couple of articles about Palestinians experiences with work permits.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/01/its-like-another-planet-crossing-the-border-from-gaza-to-work-in-israel

https://www.ft.com/content/b246af87-1ab9-4e1c-8935-31f2a277626b

Hamas’ are not good guys. They are terrorists and Gazan civilians have lived under a coup. If anything thinks the election they “won” was done at all fairly they are quite naive.

The rule of terror is one reason why Palestinians need to be protected too, the view of the Israeli Defence Minister Lieberman that there are “no innocents” in Gaza is blinkered and causing the massacre of thousands of children and civilians.

Here is a link to the UN webpage that corroborates the UN reports listed in your article.
https://news.un.org/en/tags/hamas

So what specific changes should Israel make to their constitution before you deem it acceptable for them to exist as a country? And are there any other countries you think should cease to exist because you don't like their political system of the actions of their current government?

So what specific changes should Israel make to their constitution before you deem it acceptable for them to exist as a country?

If (if!) they could get rid of Hamas then they could remove the blockade. Maybe they could withdraw from the territories they are occupying (West Bank). Just that sort of thing really.

Hamas are probably quite insidious though. I am not sure how you would establish they are defiantly gone

And are there any other countries you think should cease to exist because you don't like their political system of the actions of their current government?

No-one had said Israel should cease to exist.

So what specific changes should Israel make to their constitution before you deem it acceptable for them to exist as a country? And are there any other countries you think should cease to exist because you don't like their political system of the actions of their current government?

TBF it wasn't so long ago that we were voting on whether the UK should exist in its current form.

Yeah we have changed our U.K. written in via acts of Parliament Constitution many many times. Most of the time we existed, we had no Constitution. So the need for change doesn’t mean a call to erase existence.

The US has a tidy solution, they amend their Constitution. It’s up to 27 amendments so roughly one every 15yrs?

So to ask Israel to amend their constitution is hardly revolutionary

Not goading at all are you?

Getting mighty fed up of people who think you’re goading them by expressing opinions they don’t agree with. I mean..do you think this thread came into being just to piss you off? That’s a bit self-focused isn’t it?

If you’re not happy with the thread you can report it
however , you full well know that what it’s banned it’s to talk about what is happening in another thread. Op has carried one sentence from another thread and started an independent thread to talk about what gazans life was before 7-Oct. What’s wrong with that ? We’re not talking about other threads. And that afaik is not banned

itd be a shame to get rid of a thread full of info and with no fights like other threads, unless you’re trying to derail it to cause some problems in this one

whatever. If you’re not happy with the thread move on. There are plenty of threads you can go to

I've already reported it.

Aye well we’ll wait on the verdict for that one.

While we wait here’s an article about the Palestinians relationship with /views on Hamas.

. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas#:~:text=Most%20Gazans%20do%20not%20align,Israel%20existing%20side%20by%20side.

https://twitter.com/TorahJudaism/status/1719741630763159672?t=-IX72h_1uGgbrPDVqriTlA&s=19

The IDF really don't care now do they? Whatever they want to do. Doesn't matter that the world is watching. No laws seem to apply. Take your zionist bullshit and peddle it elsewhere.

Of note from the article linked above (published earlier this year)

“By and large, Gazans do not share Hamas’s goal of eliminating the state of Israel. When presented with three possible solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as well as an option to choose “other”), the majority of survey respondents (54 percent) favored the two-state solution outlined in the 1993 Oslo accords. In this scenario, the state of Palestine would sit alongside the state of Israel, their borders based on the de facto boundary that existed before the 1967 Six-Day War. The level of support for this resolution has not changed much since 2021; in that survey, 58 percent of respondents in Gaza selected the two-state solution.”

Lovely to see all the rabid bigots identifying themselves by the use of the term ‘Zionist’ in a pejorative way to describe anyone who questions them.

Truly we live in bizarre times.

Isn’t it just so sad that so many Palestinian’s want a two state solution and so many Israeli’s want a two state solution and yet it’s never been further away.

It’s hard to see any positive outcome now.

No not really. It's quite alright to throw antisemitism around but God forbid anyone should have the audacity call out zionism. I didn't realise that condeming a genocide and those carrying one out had to be put into more polite terms. Take it how you will.

Isn’t it just so sad that so many Palestinian’s want a two state solution and so many Israeli’s want a two state solution and yet it’s never been further away.

It's heartbreaking @mollyfolk

It's impossible with the current political leadership, I think. Hamas is set on the removal of Israel, and Netanyahu is set on the removal of any options for a Palestinian state. His Likud party's founding charter states 'between the sea and the river Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.' It's worth following the link to the charter from the guardian article, as it explains the party's decision to remain in control of the West Bank and the position on settlements.
‘From the river to the sea’: where does the slogan come from and what does it mean? | Israel-Hamas war | The Guardian

@starfleet

That is a lot of set dressing you have for your intolerances. Every thought of reading less trash in social media?