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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.

318 replies

feralunderclass · 30/10/2023 15:44

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land, and they still wouldn't accept a two state solution".

A poster said this on another thread and I literally can't get this out of my head. It's probably the best (and worst) case of gaslighting hasbara I have seen on any of the threads.

Just incase anyone has the notion that Gazans were reclining on their sunloungers, admiring the sea views from their luxury penthouse apartments, this is a thread to discuss life in Gaza pre 7/10.

Some facts:

Gaza fact sheet

Humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip Fast facts - OCHA factsheet

Fast Facts The population of Gaza is 1.6 million, with over 50% under 18. 38% of Gazans live in poverty. 26% of the Gazan workforce, including 38% of youths, is unemployed. The average wage declined by over 20% in the past six years.

https://www.un.org/unispal/humanitarian-situation-in-the-gaza-strip-fast-facts-ocha-factsheet/#

OP posts:
Thread gallery
62
MrsTerryPratchett · 30/10/2023 19:30

www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

Someone else sign-posted this site and I wanted to flag it. Actual former IDF talking about their experiences. Horses' mouths.

EasterIssland · 30/10/2023 21:50

Thanks op and others that have posted links

Gruntsandgroans · 30/10/2023 22:17

MrsTerryPratchett · 30/10/2023 19:30

www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

Someone else sign-posted this site and I wanted to flag it. Actual former IDF talking about their experiences. Horses' mouths.

Ah man, that website is both shocking and heartbreaking. This quote got to me:
And that's also something you notice at checkpoints: the young kids and Palestinian youth, you can still see the hatred in their eyes. You see it immediately at most checkpoints. But the older people, you see that they're already occupied people. They're people with a twinkle in their eye that doesn't exist, and they plead with you because they know there's no other way. The young people don't plead. The old people plead. "Please, soldier, I want to pass through, I need to work," because they've already gone through so much occupation that they don't have any more strength to resist. Because whoever resisted in their generation is probably no longer around.

Ohlalalalala · 30/10/2023 22:19

Thanks @feralunderclass for the thread.

Here's a very interesting read from a very informative website:

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/the-gaza-strip-is-no-longer-occupied/
As noble as Israelis make it sound, there were other less altruistic intentions regarding the retreat from Gaza, articulated by Dov Weisglas, top aide to Ariel Sharon who was Prime Minister at the time:“The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress.”He continued:
“The disengagement is actually formaldehyde, it supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.”

Ohlalalalala · 30/10/2023 22:21

Gruntsandgroans · 30/10/2023 22:17

Ah man, that website is both shocking and heartbreaking. This quote got to me:
And that's also something you notice at checkpoints: the young kids and Palestinian youth, you can still see the hatred in their eyes. You see it immediately at most checkpoints. But the older people, you see that they're already occupied people. They're people with a twinkle in their eye that doesn't exist, and they plead with you because they know there's no other way. The young people don't plead. The old people plead. "Please, soldier, I want to pass through, I need to work," because they've already gone through so much occupation that they don't have any more strength to resist. Because whoever resisted in their generation is probably no longer around.

Show quote history

In other words, "broken people" 😔

MrsTerryPratchett · 30/10/2023 22:23

@Gruntsandgroans Terry Pratchett describes it as 'whips in the head'. When oppressed people don't need to be whipped IRL because they've internalised it.

The place I've seen this is working with indigenous people in North America. Eyes down, don't challenge, be polite, don't object, don't talk back, just pray and hope for the interaction to end peacefully.

notsoready4school · 30/10/2023 22:53

TwilightSkies · 30/10/2023 16:20

Finally people are starting to see the truth. About time!
When all this kicked off the pro-Zionists were on every thread shouting down anyone who had sympathy for the Palestinians and calling them anti-Semitic.
The tables are turning…..

Do you think they are? I wonder if people are fooling themselves by shouting louder into an echo chamber and the same people who were interested and aware of some of these issues anyway are replying. Like ‘preaching to the converted’.

i no would love to hear from people who feel they have actually changed someone’s mind, or even informed them better to have a mind about the situation.

Efacsen · 30/10/2023 23:00

Hamas did actually have a Hamas Tourism & Archaeology directorate/board and I can tell you that they do have some lovely sandy beaches and did have some fascinating archaeological sites

I'm afraid I can't post a link because it was just something I came across when I was looking for something else - hours wasted

This is great idea for a thread OP so many excellent articles in one place

ketchup07070 · 30/10/2023 23:06

I recommend 'Checkpoint' by Israeli film maker Yoav Shamir. He documented interactions at the checkpoints for 2 years, and it's a powerful watch. On youtube still, I think.

TutuDesi · 30/10/2023 23:06

Sausagenbacon · 30/10/2023 18:00

But you do know that hamas destroyed the water purification plant when Israel pulled out?

Really?! Can’t find any report of that. I have seen reports of Hamas digging up water pipes running to the abandoned illegal Israeli settlements and then using them to replace the water pipes running to Palestinian homes that Israel destroyed.

And every time Israel bombards Gaza, they destroy tons of water infrastructure. This linked report shows only the damage Israel did in 2020.
https://www.undp.org/sites/g/files/zskgke326/files/migration/ps/UNDP-papp-research-GazaInfra.pdf

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.
"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.
"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.
Trulywonderful · 30/10/2023 23:59

TwilightSkies · 30/10/2023 16:20

Finally people are starting to see the truth. About time!
When all this kicked off the pro-Zionists were on every thread shouting down anyone who had sympathy for the Palestinians and calling them anti-Semitic.
The tables are turning…..

Not really most people are just leaving you all to the echo chambers you are making

After all you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

trambolise · 31/10/2023 00:13

@notsoready4school I do think a lot more people are aware of what's going on hence the government constantly threatening them. People are risking being arrested but also happily exposing the corruption behind it all and why the eagerness to justify blowing up civilians with their taxes from all over the world. Personally I can't change someone's hypocritical xenophobic mind especially on MN or in real life, but I'm glad that shoulder to shoulder people are coming together from different religions, beliefs, race and all walks of life challenging this by protesting and boycotting.

I see this a bit like Covid times especially on Mn where at the start people were behaving like nutcases and the media manipulating and shit stirring and over time the tables did turn and those extremists went dormant but were back again on Oct 7 with no historical facts, experiences of living under a apartheid regime etc hell they wouldn't even be able to point the Middle East without using Google maps but seem to know better than how a Palestinian should live and where to get their electricity and water from.

eardefender · 31/10/2023 00:23

My understanding is that the Israelis left the greenhouses which were then smashed up by hamas. That hamas used water pipes to make rockets and boasted about this. They used construction materials to create the ‘metro’. They hide behind civilians, treat civilians extremely badly to put it mildly, keep money for themselves and live in luxury whilst civilians rely on aid and are completely impoverished. Whatever side you are on surely everyone agrees that hamas are completely evil and need to go.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 00:41

eardefender · 31/10/2023 00:23

My understanding is that the Israelis left the greenhouses which were then smashed up by hamas. That hamas used water pipes to make rockets and boasted about this. They used construction materials to create the ‘metro’. They hide behind civilians, treat civilians extremely badly to put it mildly, keep money for themselves and live in luxury whilst civilians rely on aid and are completely impoverished. Whatever side you are on surely everyone agrees that hamas are completely evil and need to go.

Once again, verifiable, reputable links would be lovely. Thanks.

TutuDesi · 31/10/2023 01:02

eardefender · 31/10/2023 00:23

My understanding is that the Israelis left the greenhouses which were then smashed up by hamas. That hamas used water pipes to make rockets and boasted about this. They used construction materials to create the ‘metro’. They hide behind civilians, treat civilians extremely badly to put it mildly, keep money for themselves and live in luxury whilst civilians rely on aid and are completely impoverished. Whatever side you are on surely everyone agrees that hamas are completely evil and need to go.

The greenhouse bit is wrong. It wasn’t Hamas but mob looting.

“When the IDF left Gaza, half of Gaza's greenhouses were dismantled by their [Jewish settler] owners before leaving. The owners despaired at the time of receiving compensation, so they removed what they could.[12] Afterwards Palestinians looted the area, and 800 of the 4,000 greenhouses were left unusable,[13][14] while, according to Wolfensohn, most were left intact.[15] Subsequently, the harvest, intended for export via Israel for Europe, was essentially lost due to the Israeli restrictions on the Karni crossing which "was closed more than not", leading to losses in excess of $120,000 per day.[15] Economic consultants estimated that the closures cost the whole agricultural sector in Gaza $450,000 a day in lost revenue.[16] Israel closed the crossing due to security concerns.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Katif

The synagogues were set on fire and destroyed by the mobs- perhaps that is what was meant?

The water pipes, I know Hamas scavenged the pipes to these abandoned settlements and one of their commanders bragged to a journalist that they’d turned some into rockets but it’s not scientifically possible for the current rockets they have. At most the earliest rockets that couldn’t even get to Israel from Gaza were these ones? I think it more likely it’s a cover story for smuggled rockets as the ones they have now can reach any part of Israel.

Hamas does “tax” the civilians in Gaza and I am sure they are financed by nefarious benefactors from overseas. I do know no aid funds go to Hamas.

Gush Katif - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Katif

Coyoacan · 31/10/2023 01:21

Thank you all for this thread.

as for @Trulywonderful

You take great pride in sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen but I don't know what you hope to gain by that.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 02:14

ketchup07070 · 30/10/2023 23:06

I recommend 'Checkpoint' by Israeli film maker Yoav Shamir. He documented interactions at the checkpoints for 2 years, and it's a powerful watch. On youtube still, I think.

I managed 15 minutes. It's like Kafka meets Sisyphus. I will get through it.

Just awful how people are spoken to. And that was made a couple of decades ago now.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 02:16

Checkpoint on YouTube.

starfleet · 31/10/2023 07:16

https://twitter.com/propandco/status/1716970010009116809?t=h92lk5TYQs-jVyZUUBhf_A&s=19

This made me feel sick. Looks like some things haven't changed nor has Zionist mentality.

https://twitter.com/propandco/status/1716970010009116809?s=19&t=h92lk5TYQs-jVyZUUBhf_A

Reallifelurker · 31/10/2023 07:24

Googling the incident re the greenhouses is depressing. Never mind Hamas a lot of pro-Israelis say the Palestinians destroyed them by looting them. Didn’t loot them when they belonged to the Israelis but the minute their backs were turned…
Oh aren’t these Palestinians silly? no wonder they couldn’t make the desert bloom. They could have had a thriving economy.

Or maybe not..

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/columnists/trudy_rubin/gaza-israel-crisis-jerusalem-united-states-trump-20180518.html?outputType=amp

Truth about Gaza: 3 myths keeping U.S., Jerusalem from owning up to their roles in the crisis | Trudy Rubin

Unless Israel and the White House address the economic collapse in Gaza, the violence will continue.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/columnists/trudy_rubin/gaza-israel-crisis-jerusalem-united-states-trump-20180518.html?outputType=amp

Meadowfly · 31/10/2023 07:25

How does Hamas manage to have so many weapons when their people don’t have food?