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Conflict in the Middle East

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To have questions about occupied land in Gaza?

242 replies

Autumnalvibesofmellowness · 27/10/2023 11:59

This is in no way an attempt to diminish the atrocities of October 7th.

We hear that Jewish people across the world are scared and I understand why. Fully sympathise. We hear they want their hostages released and I fully support that too. We hear that Israeli foreign policy right now has to be brutal because Hamas and there's no point trying to negotiate because Hamas don't want a two state solution. I'm open to all this being true.

But then I hear that Palestinians have their homes destroyed, their orchards bulldozed and their land occupied by Israeli settlers living in places that are Palestinian. I hear that Palestinian families sometimes have lasers on their bodies where Israeli snipers are trained on them, not being fired at but targeted as an intimation tactic to get them to leave their homes. I've read that Gaza could afford its own water but consent to put in water supplies needs to be given by Israel and never is.

(I also don't understand why special forces can't deal with Hamas rather than bombing Gazan children into oblivion and have seen US military leaders saying the same - but that's another issue).

I genuinely don't understand. Why the provocation and incursion upon Palestinians trying to get on with their lives? Why not stop that if the goal is to feel safe and have a two state solution? Many posters here have recently responded to the reported Gazan casualties of war by suggesting that it's Hamas' fault for not giving back hostages. But about the hostages....if I was an Israeli settler on Palestinian land I would return to Israel or offer to do so in order to secure this, if we're talking about everything being done that could be done to get those people home. It might be negotiating with terrorists in a way but surely displacing people from their homes is also a kind of terrorism so this solution would be a mutual standing down? If all Israel wants is a two state solution they're losing nothing and everyone wins.

I guess I'm wondering why we can't talk about this openly and why there is ongoing provocation of Gaza. It seems like Biden and other leaders skirt round the edges of this and Israel finds it incendiary. It also seems like there are logical conclusions that can only be drawn very hesitantly because they might be found offensive when they're actually common sense. I don't even feel like I can talk about these issues in RL for fear of being written off as antisemitic. As much as I sympathise, I'm perplexed. For example, I sympathise deeply with Jewish children who have to hide their uniforms to feel safe - that should never happen and particularly not to a people group who have endured the Holocaust. But why doesn't the Jewish community do what it can to minimise the tensions by stopping Israeli settlers moving into Palestinian homes? How does Israel have the moral high ground when it looks like an ongoing land grab rather than either party having a goal for peace? I don't think Palestinian children should be homeless because they feel driven out of their community either - but it seems like that's not ok to say. Or is it?

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eardefender · 30/10/2023 22:10

Rubbishagain · 30/10/2023 21:22

Using white phosphorus bombs on innocent civilians and allowing illegal settlers to steal people’s homes and land is not 13th century. Very modern I assume. I choose my future very very carefully to be without phosphorus bombs, starving people deliberately and intentionally making innocent people homeless.

I am sorry to say this but how innocent are they. Thousands cheering naked raped women paraded in the streets, the ‘hi mum i’m a hero I just killed 10 Jews with my bare hands’ call? Are we just being naive here that there is not more support for hamas amongst the general population of Gaza. 80% live on aid while hamas steal aid money to live in luxury in Doha and feed their war machine. How do garzans really feel about their government , hamas?

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 30/10/2023 22:24

@eardefender what do you mean, did the things that he did? Your Reply to basil about ascending to heaven

Gruntsandgroans · 30/10/2023 22:56

eardefender · 30/10/2023 22:10

I am sorry to say this but how innocent are they. Thousands cheering naked raped women paraded in the streets, the ‘hi mum i’m a hero I just killed 10 Jews with my bare hands’ call? Are we just being naive here that there is not more support for hamas amongst the general population of Gaza. 80% live on aid while hamas steal aid money to live in luxury in Doha and feed their war machine. How do garzans really feel about their government , hamas?

Would you like it if we asked how innocent are Israelis? Cheering on the bombs in Gaza? Israeli influencers making skits out of the Palestinians suffering? Laugh and love reactions on social media to news of children being killed? Describing all of the dead in Gaza as terrorists, even the children? Allowing their politicians to say 'Gazan children brought this upon themselves' with no repercussions? Living lovely lives while keeping 2million people in collective punishment for almost 2 decades? Allowing the IDF to get away with murdering and imprisoning children? Voting in a racist, facist government? I mean I'm sorry to say but how innocent are they really 🤔

eardefender · 30/10/2023 23:40

Gruntsandgroans · 30/10/2023 22:56

Would you like it if we asked how innocent are Israelis? Cheering on the bombs in Gaza? Israeli influencers making skits out of the Palestinians suffering? Laugh and love reactions on social media to news of children being killed? Describing all of the dead in Gaza as terrorists, even the children? Allowing their politicians to say 'Gazan children brought this upon themselves' with no repercussions? Living lovely lives while keeping 2million people in collective punishment for almost 2 decades? Allowing the IDF to get away with murdering and imprisoning children? Voting in a racist, facist government? I mean I'm sorry to say but how innocent are they really 🤔

The questions you ask are absolutely being asked and in fact I think, probably dominate the discourse which I think is probably on the negative toward Israel more than towards the Palestinian side.
I do think those question should be asked of both sides, yes.

eardefender · 30/10/2023 23:41

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 30/10/2023 22:24

@eardefender what do you mean, did the things that he did? Your Reply to basil about ascending to heaven

Are you aware of the actions of the prophet Mohamed? Actions that some people may strongly feel would definitely not open the gates of heaven to him….

Rubbishagain · 30/10/2023 23:50

eardefender · 30/10/2023 22:10

I am sorry to say this but how innocent are they. Thousands cheering naked raped women paraded in the streets, the ‘hi mum i’m a hero I just killed 10 Jews with my bare hands’ call? Are we just being naive here that there is not more support for hamas amongst the general population of Gaza. 80% live on aid while hamas steal aid money to live in luxury in Doha and feed their war machine. How do garzans really feel about their government , hamas?

how innocent are the babies and children? Is that what you’re asking?
haven’t heard anything about the thousands cheering naked raped women? Which news channel was that on.
most governments are corrupt, don’t doubt that info however the IDF and illegal settlers have been stealing land and homes for decades. Why is this not addressed or condemned? These are innocent families being thrown out of their homes because illegal settlers have no where to go and the Israeli government won’t help them

Efacsen · 31/10/2023 00:53

eardefender · 30/10/2023 23:41

Are you aware of the actions of the prophet Mohamed? Actions that some people may strongly feel would definitely not open the gates of heaven to him….

You're just goading - and it has a distinct islamophobic flavour

SeeReality · 31/10/2023 01:33

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

BasilPersil · 31/10/2023 06:03

eardefender · 30/10/2023 22:06

How does one ascend to heaven if he did the things he did?

I don't know, I'm not a Quaranical scholar. Maybe you should ask one?

The question you asked was why Jerusalem is important to Muslims. I told you. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of it.

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 31/10/2023 07:28

@eardefender yes I'm.aware of the prophets deeds and actions. Do educate me on what you are referring to. I'm muslim so obviously I need educating, don't I! Or are you being deliberately goady?

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:01

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 31/10/2023 07:28

@eardefender yes I'm.aware of the prophets deeds and actions. Do educate me on what you are referring to. I'm muslim so obviously I need educating, don't I! Or are you being deliberately goady?

then you know full well what I am referring to. I don’t want to get a mn ban by getting into it.

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:03

Efacsen · 31/10/2023 00:53

You're just goading - and it has a distinct islamophobic flavour

Yes of course it is islamaphobic to even hint at the slightest criticism for abhorrent actions. Fgs.

Efacsen · 31/10/2023 08:08

eardefender · 31/10/2023 08:03

Yes of course it is islamaphobic to even hint at the slightest criticism for abhorrent actions. Fgs.

If what you are hinting at is against MN Talk guidelines and you think you'll get banned for saying it [your post at 08.01]

Then it looks like I'm right in my assessment

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 31/10/2023 08:09

You know what I just realised. On all these threads we have had atheists, Jews, Muslims, and many others. Not one of us has bashed the Jewish faith, even those who don't agree with Israel. We haven't said anything against the Jewish faith. Yet Islam and Muslims are really getting it aren't we!!

And this 'war' isn't even anything to do with religion!!!

And they call us Muslims the terrorists 🤣

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 31/10/2023 08:13

And apparently islamaphobia is allowed but antisemitism isn't.... 🤷🏼‍♀️

AnswerQ · 25/11/2023 19:33

Hahaha yes, you are correct. There is no consensus about anything. This is the best start to understanding the conflict I have seen here. And it is not intentional, people really learn totally different sets of facts on a topic, and totally different interpretations of what occurred. If you can understand multiple viewpoints, that is a good sign :)

AnswerQ · 25/11/2023 19:36

"Why can't special forces take down Hamas" - unfortunately Israelis aren't superheroes. Urban warfare is horrific and impossible to do without civilian casualties, which is horrible. Asking people to evacuate and leveling buildings so you don't have to fight building by building helps reduce casualties a lot. (In Lebanon, the PLO would shoot down from rooftops with women standing on top of them so if Israelis shot back, they would hit women). This is not to excuse Israeli settlers in the West Bank or other policies Israel does wrong.

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