Nearly 5000 now dead, mostly women and children. Sickening.

[flashbac]

At what point will it stop? Why are the Palestinians seen as vermin? Ethnic cleansing is what this is.

And committing war crimes against Palestinian civilians provokes a repulsion amongst right thinking people who care about the sanctity of human life, not just Israeli life. All life.

No you won’t explain it because you can’t. I’ve explained my point because I stand by it. It’s the same. Terrorists (IRA)bomb city. Country (England)does not retaliate. Terrorists (Hammas) bomb city. Country (Isreal) wipes out those they have oppressed and bombed for years.

Always lots of comments about what Israel shouldn't be doing. Very little about what they should be doing.

While I would much rather Gaza wasn't such a shit show to start with (the blame for that can likely be shared between a few people) and that no one was dying right now. I can honestly say I have no idea what a good solution is at the moment.

I can't see Hamas being willing to negotiate any sort of two state solution, they never have been before. They seem wildly unlikely to stop attacking Israel either with rockets or direct attacks. They do traditionally base their weapons stores etc. in civilian areas. It doesn't seem likely they will give up power or that the Palestinian people have the will / ability to make them.

So, what should Israel do? What are their options?

Well they should end the 16 year long blockade of Gaza for a start.

And stop end the ongoing practice of stealing land in the West Bank. That might help matters.

Your comment suggests they're completely blameless in all this.

His stories are an absolute must watch. The amount of bodies on his stories today, it is just unfathomable. All of those poor children. He has lost 15 family members most of them children along with numerous friends. The poor man looks more and more broken everyday.

Being able to see inside Gaza, see what is actually happening, see the bodies, see the screaming, terrified children, seeing people digging babies out of bombed building with their bare hands, I think it has changed something inside me forever. I want to look away but this man along with others are risking their lives to show us, to get us to take action so turning my back just doesn't feel right.

It is a massacre taking place before our very eyes. Horrendous suffering. Nothing can ever justify what Israel have done to the people of Gaza.

It's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that there is a reason Israel behaves in this way. That doesn't mean any of us should condone it.

And 'any action' Israel takes ha been consistently to kill more Palestinians, and even more children. Civilians. It's never proportionate.

They do traditionally base their weapons stores etc. in civilian areas.

It's one of the most densely populated places on earth. Where else would things be?

It's unbelievable. Can't count the number of nights I've lost sleep over the images I've seen.

I can't go on social media today because I felt like I was going to crack up with the injustice of it all.

To be fair I should probably stay away from mumsnet too because a lot of the Zionists' lack of regard for human life in Gaza is quite distressing to be around.

You’ve completely failed to answer anything I said. Have a look at the last sentence and tell me what Israel should do to protect itself.

If the - attempted - answer is intelligence gathering and precision intervention and arrests, they’ve been doing that for decades. (Nearly as long as Israel’s entirely justified killings and abductions of fugitive Nazis.) Along with protective systems and barriers. It doesn’t deal with the bulk of the problem of Hamas and Hezbollah.

You're ignoring the fact that Israel has been stealing land from Palestinians in the West Bank and has subjected Gaza to an inhumane blockade since 2007 though so it's not a fair question.

Israel isn't just calmly minding its own business in this. And I'm not for a moment suggesting that Hamas were in any way justified in doing what they did - of course they weren't - but the way you're presenting the situation is ridiculous.

If you'd like to contribute to at least not making the current conflict worse, try searching for Downnative's posts on here and reading them. She has a lot of patience.

To be fair I should probably stay away from mumsnet too because a lot of the Zionists' lack of regard for human life in Gaza is quite distressing to be around

Im interested why you can’t seem to just come out and say that you don’t believe Israel has the right to have land there. Why skirt around it?

And do you believe Israel has the right to all the land, including Gaza and the West Bank?

Since the day or the pogrom Hamas has not stopped firing missiles at Israel. It has been more than seven thousand missiles to this date. They give no warning before firing to allow civilians to get out of the way unlike Israel does most the time.

The only reason Israel have not had more deaths is because they have the iron dome system. This stops a lot of the rockets but not all. The system was put in place years ago because Gaza keep firing rockets at Israel and they needed to protect citizens. It is a complete joke that people think less deaths means Israel is doing all the bombing.

Around 200 Israeli are now displaced leaving an areas about the size of four London boroughs. More have been told they need to move to safer areas in the coming days.

the racism/Islamophobia demonstrated by so many pro-Israel supporters - who cry “anti-semitism!!!” At the slightest criticism of Israel is sickening.

This current Israeli government are as abhorrent as Hamas. Both are terrorists. Failing to condemn Hamas is inexcusable but failing to condemn this bloodthirsty Palestinian-hating Israeli government is equally so.

Netanyahu and his cronies are war criminals and I hope they are brought to The Hague.

Meanwhile, in 2014:

'The United Nations has found troves of rockets hidden in three of its schools since the conflict began. “We condemn the group or groups who endangered civilians by placing these munitions in our school,” Chris Gunness, spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, said in statement published Wednesday by the Times of Israel. “This is yet another flagrant violation of the neutrality of our premises. We call on all the warring parties to respect the inviolability of U.N. property.”

Earlier this month, the United Nations also found rockets piled inside one of its vacant schools — near other schools used to accommodate displaced people.
The international organization also found 20 additional rockets at another of its schools during an inspection, calling it one more “flagrant violation of the inviolability” of the premises.'

The Al Shifa hospital even gets a mention:

'During one short-lived lull in rocket fire, The Washington Post’s William Booth saw a “group of men” at a mosque in northern Gaza. They said they had returned to clean up glass from shattered windows. “But they could be seen moving small rockets into the mosque,” Booth wrote. He also reported that Shifa Hospital in Gaza City had “become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”

Wall Street Journal reporter Nick Casey tweeted an image of a Hamas spokesman giving an interview at a Gaza hospital. With the shelling, “You have to wonder … how patients at Shifa hospital feel as Hamas uses it as a safe place to see media.” The tweet was later deleted.'

Why Hamas stores its weapons inside hospitals, mosques and schools - The Washington Post

I don't believe they have a right to illegally steal land. They have the right to their own lands but not those that they've illegally taken.

You don't seem to be able to say that Palestinian civilians have a right not to be murdered in their beds though so I'm not going to be engaging with you any more.

Edit: quote fail. This was in response to @hamstersarse

@HipHipWhoRay You’re right, genocide was their only choice.

I'm sorry that's how it came across. I don't think Israel are blameless, far from it. I've had some very strong opinions about the Israeli government's policies in a number of areas for a long time.

I agree about the West Bank. I'm not so sure about the blockade, what would ending that look like? How could that be done in a way that maintained security? Or do you think that isn't needed?

Do you think those actions would actually lead to any sort of resolution?

My belief is that Hamas will not accept a solution that allows the continuing existence of Israel as a state. That wouldn't be an acceptable resolution for me but for some people that is perhaps the answer.

It’s not a war.

Hamas are a militant force who committed horrendous acts in Israel. However they do not represent or speak for all the people in Gaza and certainly not the West Bank.

Israeli firepower backed by the US cannot be matched. It’s completely unequal.

They have been committing war crimes, creating apartheid conditions and have been butchering Palestinians for decades.

The world is slowly opening their eyes to the atrocities that the Israeli government and IDF commit on a daily basis, this despite the very pro-Israeli and anti-Palestinian media coverage.

The situation could have been on the way to peace if the Oslo Accords had passed but Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a far right wing nationalist Israeli, who was on the same side as Benjamin Netanyahu.

Israel do not want a solution, they want to eradicate the Palestinian people and the West give them a green light to do so.

Anyone who bleats “Hamas are to blame”, “What about the Israelis” whilst innocent men, women and children have water turned off, no electricity, lack of medical equipment and food whilst they facing a constant threat of bombings is a cretin and ignorant to human suffering.

Israel is a terrorist state committing genocide in the world stage.

The Palestinian terrorists on Oct 7th were wearing body cameras to record what they did. Some of the footage from dead Hamas terrorists is in Israeli hands and then they plan to release it. I wonder how all the Palestinian Islamic jihadist apologists will react then. I mean 1300 deaths and Israel is expected to just take it.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

THIS IS SPOT ON.

It is roughly the size of Venice with roughly the same size population. Venice is a very cramped place yes. However half the population unlike Venice are children. Therefore there less buildings etc.

They do have room to grow and areas that are not very built up.

It's roughly the same population density as london.

But regardless it's pretty common knowledge isn't it that Hamas use civilians as human shields?

Apparently not...