Nearly 5000 now dead, mostly women and children. Sickening.

[flashbac]

At what point will it stop? Why are the Palestinians seen as vermin? Ethnic cleansing is what this is.

Is that total including the dead Israelis?

No thats the total Palestinians.
The total Israelis is 1400.

Of course, we’ll take your word for that number.

I don't believe a word Hamas says.

Oh course there are fatalities on both sides because it is a war. That is what happens during a war.

Innocent civilians have lost their lives in Israel and Palestine.

Palestinians are not seen as vermin. The question is about what is a proportionate response to Israelis being murdered in their homes? What do you suggest the Israel government does? It’s not like Hamas wanted to talk. Netanyahu has a lot to answer for, but what choice does Israel have?

I don't believe a word anyone says about this shit.

But the 'it's a war' rhetoric is bullshit. Non-combatants deserve at least the semblance of a status. The human shield/we didn't mean to excuses only go so far. And so, just because one side targets non-combatants, doesn't make it OK that the other side does too. Especially when the other side is the forces of a well-supplied, very advanced, democratic country.

We have no idea how many bodies are under the rubble and Israel is far from done.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/21/israel-gaza-war-hamas-and-israel-spar-over-hostage-release

Reported on Al Jazeera

"On Saturday, Israel dropped leaflets from planes in Gaza City, warning its remaining residents that anyone who chooses to not evacuate “may be identified as a partner to a terrorist organisation”.

It almost feels like the civilians in Gaza are being used for entertainment now, they keep being told to evacuate but they have nowhere to go. It's like a sick joke and western governments have given them a green light to do whatever the hell they like.

yeah it’s a tough one, I’m thinking there has to be a better choice than genocide though.

Do you see the problem with relying on a link from Al Jazeera @FOJN ?

Read widely, including Al Jazeera. No one has a monopoly on truth.

@FOJN
Is there any point in telling you that the IDF claim that's not what the posters say? That they were incorrectly translated by the people who reported them to the news outlets?

It is horrendous.

Hamas could have stopped it / could stop it by immediately freeing the hostages.

They attacked Israel, killed 1,400, are holding Israeli hostages to ransom and in doing so are holding their own people hostage / exposing them to this.

I don’t condone the long-standing oppression of Palestinians, and think Netanyahu was a disaster waiting to happen.

At this stage I wonder what place our liberal hand wring has? There are no winners, no happy ending here.

I'm sure that will be very reassuring to the residents of Gaza.

Why do you think the IDF is more reliable than Al Jazeera when they've been caught faking audio from an allegedly intercepted call between Hamas terrorists just this week?

No, none whatsoever. I read and listen to news from a wide range of sources, always aware that every news source has its biases.

Within 2 hours of the hospital carpark incident hamas said there were 500 dead. I don’t doubt the death toll is horrific but I absolutely do not trust any numbers they put out.

No, none whatsoever. I read and listen to news from a wide range of sources, always aware that every news source has its biases.

Lovely. So you probably understand that sharing a (single) link from a source entirely funded by Qatar isn’t going to look massively credible.

@FOJN
Because Al Jazeera never faked anything before, right? As far as I'm aware there are only suspicions the audio Israel presented is fake, no actual proof. But let's not allow a small detail like that get in the way.

Al Jazeera have an English channel and an Arabic channel. Let's just say they don't exactly post the same content on the two. Maybe try Google translate from the Arabic news instead of reading the English articles. It's pretty fascinating.

Oh and I say this as a Jew with family who all speak Arabic. Obviously you're free not to believe my family, which is why I suggested Google translate.

Anyway, just wanted to confirm that there is indeed no point in discussing with you as you clearly aren't interested in what the other side have to say. Thought it was worth a try though.

Hope there's peace and an end to everyone's suffering soon.

Wow. I can't believe I live in a time where people's reactions to this news is to justify it or question it.

Disgusting comments in this thread at a time when we're witnessing ethnic cleansing and other crimes against humanity happen before our very eyes.

I’m not sure what you expect Israel to do? Just put up with Hamas coming over their borders and murdering people?

They could, of course, totally flatten Gaza but they aren’t doing that. It’s not ‘ethnic cleansing’ by any stretch of the imagination, it’s defence of borders. Defence to neighbours who don’t think they should even exist. Do you believe there should be a state of Israel? Or that Palestine should be “from the river to the sea”?

They could maybe not murder women and children?

Except, the UN have already called it genocide. So no.

DTI.

Fewer would die if Hamas allowed civilians to live away from military centres and weapons stashes. Instead of keeping, say, weapons in hospitals and housing blocks.

Telling people to leave their homes or they'll be bombed is exactly ethnic cleansing.

Is there 500 from the hospital included in that? The one where they set up an actual podium on top of bodies within minutes?