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Conflict in the Middle East

To think it’s turning into genocide in real time part 2

751 replies

Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73 · 22/10/2023 08:43

First thread here but it’s full
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4918938-to-think-its-turning-into-genocide-in-real-time?page=1

Medical Aid to Palestine posted this thread on facebook describing the scenes in Gaza as being like the last days of humanity with one of their staff members having to search through piles of bodies to find his 13 year old niece https://www.facebook.com/100064712829372/posts/pfbid028yxpzimtA3apA6CSs8dEhJBd16rYUQR6QjFidEpwRCZzPVYoeJezX8nDrtZP2UZRl/?app=fbl

The main stream press aren’t really addressing the horror of what is happening (bar maybe Channel 4 news and Al Jazeera) - it’s a sanitised version.

As I said in the original thread, there has been absolute horror on both sides but the Israeli government are inflicting collective punishment on the people of Gaza, which is a war crime under international law.

I still feel we are watching genocide in real time.

To think it’s turning into genocide in real time | Mumsnet

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide. What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this i...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4918938-to-think-its-turning-into-genocide-in-real-time?page=1

OP posts:
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87
mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 21:09

RedToothBrush · 29/10/2023 20:56

Twitter has numerous links to what looks to be an official Israeli policy post Oct 7th.

Israel's Ministry of Intelligence deportation directive outlines the four stages:
1. A call on #Palestinian civilians to vacate north Gaza and allow for land operations;
2. Sequential land operations from north to south Gaza;
3. Leaving routes open across Rafah;
4. Establishing "tent cities" in northern Sinai and the construction of cities to resettle Palestinians in Egypt.

This keeps popping up in various forms and from decent sources. I think it's probably accurate.

This would constitute ethnic cleansing, but I don't believe fits the criteria to reach the level of genocide.

Twitter has been debunked on many occasions -

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/bbc-expert-debunking-israel-hamas-war-visuals-volume-misinformation-twitter-was-beyond

BBC expert on debunking Israel-Hamas war visuals: “The volume of misinformation on Twitter was beyond anything I’ve ever seen”

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/bbc-expert-debunking-israel-hamas-war-visuals-volume-misinformation-twitter-was-beyond

Ohlalalalala · 29/10/2023 21:11

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 20:20

The UN is not a Criminal Court.

For the offence of murder to be proved, there must be both the act and the mental element of intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm.

Israel has done all it can to minimise danger to civilians.

As long as Hamas exists Israeli citizens are in danger.

I'm getting a bit sick of all these threads promoting Atrocity Inversion.

For the offence of murder to be proved, there must be both the act and the mental element of intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm

That's the motto of IDF, the most immoral army in the world, who specialise in killing civilians with a predilection for babies and children (because they are tomorrow's enemies).

This explains Israel's savvy manipulation of the rules of war:

The myth of Israel’s ‘most moral army’ https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/16/the-myth-of-israels-most-moral

The myth of Israel’s ‘most moral army’

Manipulating international law allows Israel to evade condemnation for its war crimes.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/16/the-myth-of-israels-most-moral

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 29/10/2023 21:13

Yes indeed. Back in June, Netanyahu was ready to exploit the Palestinian oil field and was seeking ‘security assurances’ before embarking on what was fictitiously described by Israel as an alliance with the Palestinian Authority and Egypt. Well, we all know how this is going to pan out.

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 21:21

@Ohlalalalala "That's the motto of IDF, the most immoral army in the world, who specialise in killing civilians with a predilection for babies and children (because they are tomorrow's enemies)."

Oh just get over yourself with this emotive inflammatory rhetoric.

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 21:42

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 29/10/2023 21:13

Yes indeed. Back in June, Netanyahu was ready to exploit the Palestinian oil field and was seeking ‘security assurances’ before embarking on what was fictitiously described by Israel as an alliance with the Palestinian Authority and Egypt. Well, we all know how this is going to pan out.

Edited

That is not completely correct.

According to Israel;
Nov 2022
The $1.4 billion project, should have been finalized by February 2023 and should have launched gas production by March 2024, was to be a high-stakes collaboration among the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, Israel and Hamas, (the Islamist militant group that rules the Gaza Strip).

The multilateral partnership was intended to throw a lifeline to the cash-strapped and deeply unpopular Palestinian Authority, which is based in the West Bank and has for the past 15 years held no authority in the Gaza Strip.

Hamas and Israel have engaged in four devastating wars in the Gaza Strip. Both should have been at least tacitly, on board.

but according to Palestine;
Oct 2022 Andalou Agency (Turkish)
A Palestinian source has denied reports about an agreement with Egypt and Israel to extract gas off the Gaza Strip.
“These reports published by Israeli media are inaccurate,” the source told Anadolu Agency on Wednesday.
The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said current talks on extracting gas off Gaza are between Egypt and Palestine.
'The talks don't include Israel. We will not pay Israel to extract our gas. This is unacceptable,' he added.
On Monday, the Palestinian government formed a panel to strike a deal between the Palestine Investment Fund (PIF) and Egypt to extract gas from the Marine gas field off Gaza.

And now we have this - which is nothing to do with Israel (or Gaza for that matter)

https://egyptoil-gas.com/news/egas-palestine-to-finalize-development-agreement-for-gaza-marine-offshore-field/

Egyptian Consortium, Palestine to Finalize Development Agreement for Gaza Marine Offshore Field | Egypt Oil & Gas

https://egyptoil-gas.com/news/egas-palestine-to-finalize-development-agreement-for-gaza-marine-offshore-field

Ohlalalalala · 29/10/2023 21:46

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 21:21

@Ohlalalalala "That's the motto of IDF, the most immoral army in the world, who specialise in killing civilians with a predilection for babies and children (because they are tomorrow's enemies)."

Oh just get over yourself with this emotive inflammatory rhetoric.

I didn't go to hasbara school. I say it how I see it. I don't seek to throw dust on people's eyes. I don't seek to justify a genocide. I don't seek to dehumanise an entire population. I don't seek to spin snd distort the truth. I don't use blackmail, deception and lobbying to reach my goals. I am a human who loves peace and justice. And every normal human being in the world is feeling tremendous pain at what's happening in Gaza.

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 21:51

@Ohlalalalala So are you saying that I went to Hasbara school? Or that inferring I am "not a normal human being?"

Coughingdodger · 29/10/2023 23:26

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 20:11

@Coughingdodger "The Guardian today reports ethnic cleansing."

I haven't seen that article.

"For the reports of mass murder, see any news website, TV station or newspaper worldwide to see the reported numbers of murdered civilians, including thousands of children."

I've never heard any reporter use the word murder or mass murder and I've watched Sky, BBC, and Al Jezeera.

Try reading that Guardian article again. It specifically mentions “ethnic cleansing”.

And I’m sorry if you don’t think what’s happening is mass murder but that’s what most people are thinking. The UN for example, speaking about war crimes, is reputable enough for me.

flufferknutter · 29/10/2023 23:32

The West is too cowardly and mealy mouthed to use the terms 'mass murder' and 'war crimes', but that's exactly what it is. Israel aren't having to defend themselves from babies in incubators, women or the elderly are they?

I hope Netanyahu ends up at The Hague.

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 23:43

Coughingdodger · 29/10/2023 23:26

Try reading that Guardian article again. It specifically mentions “ethnic cleansing”.

And I’m sorry if you don’t think what’s happening is mass murder but that’s what most people are thinking. The UN for example, speaking about war crimes, is reputable enough for me.

It makes claims of 'ethnic cleansing' on the West Bank, not in Gaza.

SinnerBoy · 29/10/2023 23:59

Sippingmytea · Today 19:33

I’ve just seen a video of the IDF bulldozing homes in Northern Gaza. What is the point of that?

It's the first part of clearing it for the new Israel settlement homes. A number of Israeli officials have said that after this, Gaza will be smaller.

CosimoPiovasco · 30/10/2023 00:00

flufferknutter · 29/10/2023 23:26

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67248457.amp

Probably because there will be no Gaza left.

Apart from control of all the oil that is.

CosimoPiovasco · 30/10/2023 00:02

mydiaryisfull · 29/10/2023 21:42

That is not completely correct.

According to Israel;
Nov 2022
The $1.4 billion project, should have been finalized by February 2023 and should have launched gas production by March 2024, was to be a high-stakes collaboration among the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, Israel and Hamas, (the Islamist militant group that rules the Gaza Strip).

The multilateral partnership was intended to throw a lifeline to the cash-strapped and deeply unpopular Palestinian Authority, which is based in the West Bank and has for the past 15 years held no authority in the Gaza Strip.

Hamas and Israel have engaged in four devastating wars in the Gaza Strip. Both should have been at least tacitly, on board.

but according to Palestine;
Oct 2022 Andalou Agency (Turkish)
A Palestinian source has denied reports about an agreement with Egypt and Israel to extract gas off the Gaza Strip.
“These reports published by Israeli media are inaccurate,” the source told Anadolu Agency on Wednesday.
The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said current talks on extracting gas off Gaza are between Egypt and Palestine.
'The talks don't include Israel. We will not pay Israel to extract our gas. This is unacceptable,' he added.
On Monday, the Palestinian government formed a panel to strike a deal between the Palestine Investment Fund (PIF) and Egypt to extract gas from the Marine gas field off Gaza.

And now we have this - which is nothing to do with Israel (or Gaza for that matter)

https://egyptoil-gas.com/news/egas-palestine-to-finalize-development-agreement-for-gaza-marine-offshore-field/

Or this re oil

To think it’s turning into genocide in real time part 2
To think it’s turning into genocide in real time part 2
SinnerBoy · 30/10/2023 00:09

mydiaryisfull · Today 20:35

"Like warning them to evacuate hospitals before they bomb them?"

IDF has not bombed a hospital.

An accurate way of saying that would be: "Israel was not responsible for that particular bomb in a hospital car park."

The Archbishop of Canterbury confirmed last week that they had bombed a Christian one, on two occasions. In all past attacks, they have bombed hospitals, UN shelters, schools designated as shelters, churches and mosques.

This time, they've even gone for bakeries.

They've also stated that they're going to annihilate a particular hospital and even posted a CGI cartoon, to pretend that there's a Hamas super villain lair underneath it.

They not only don't take care to avoid civilian casualties, they actively target them. This has been amply proven in Red Cross and UN investigations of the wars against Gaza from recent years.

The last time they invaded Lebanon, they placed lots of artillery pieces next to Lebanese farms, as human shields. In Golan, they placed artillery next to Jewish and Druze farms and houses, hoping to claim that Hezbollah were deliberately targetting Israeli civilians.

The IDF and Israeli government aren't Boy Scouts, they're equally bad - when it comes to violence, at least - as the groups they fight.

SinnerBoy · 30/10/2023 00:13

And no, I'm absolutely not saying that Israel should be wiped out, or that it shouldn't be allowed to defend itself. Of course it's allowed to, its people should be allowed to live in peace, free from the fear of being bombed, shot, raped, or having their babies murdered in front of them.

Just like the rest of the human race.

mydiaryisfull · 30/10/2023 04:32

SinnerBoy · 30/10/2023 00:13

And no, I'm absolutely not saying that Israel should be wiped out, or that it shouldn't be allowed to defend itself. Of course it's allowed to, its people should be allowed to live in peace, free from the fear of being bombed, shot, raped, or having their babies murdered in front of them.

Just like the rest of the human race.

A pity Hamas doesn't agree.

See Article 7 of the Hamas Charter

Article Seven of the Charter concludes with a quotation from a hadith: The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'

There is no Israeli equivalent, so this makes it clear who is the aggressor.

SinnerBoy · 30/10/2023 04:52

Sorry, the Guardian had it a few days ago. It's still true though, as you know, because there have been numerous sources of confirmation and it's standard Israeli operating procedure.

Desertrose2023 · 30/10/2023 04:57

Israel now bombing southern Lebanon, expanding its aggression.

Efacsen · 30/10/2023 05:49

Desertrose2023 · 30/10/2023 04:57

Israel now bombing southern Lebanon, expanding its aggression.

This exchange of fire between Israel and Hezbollah militants in Lebanon hasn't just started ''now'' it's been happening for the last 3 weeks and is self-defence not aggression towards Lebanon

It's a very longstanding problem - there is a UN Peacekeeping force in the middle of this

Sippingmytea · 30/10/2023 06:02

The videos coming out of Gaza this morning are as horrific as ever. For the people on here who support this, do you have any compassion for the people of Gaza? Beyond the “free Gaza from Hamas” lines that are said. Do you have compassion?

Sippingmytea · 30/10/2023 06:15

Why on earth is Israel using white phosphorus on areas that are densely populated with innocent people?

I feel physically sick this morning. It is absolutely vile. Don’t you dare say “oh but Hamas”. Israel needs to take some responsibility when it pulls the trigger.