To think it’s turning into genocide in real time part 2

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

First thread here but it’s full
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4918938-to-think-its-turning-into-genocide-in-real-time?page=1

Medical Aid to Palestine posted this thread on facebook describing the scenes in Gaza as being like the last days of humanity with one of their staff members having to search through piles of bodies to find his 13 year old niece https://www.facebook.com/100064712829372/posts/pfbid028yxpzimtA3apA6CSs8dEhJBd16rYUQR6QjFidEpwRCZzPVYoeJezX8nDrtZP2UZRl/?app=fbl

The main stream press aren’t really addressing the horror of what is happening (bar maybe Channel 4 news and Al Jazeera) - it’s a sanitised version.

As I said in the original thread, there has been absolute horror on both sides but the Israeli government are inflicting collective punishment on the people of Gaza, which is a war crime under international law.

I still feel we are watching genocide in real time.

They’ve been doing that for years
watch on

vimeo.com. This is Palestine. Made by an Irish charity in 2007.

Sorry 2017

But you only know that is what the IDF were doing as the caption with the video said that it was residential homes. The same video with a different caption is on twitter saying it's in the West Bank and it is the home of a Hamas leader.

They have been moving in with their army and bulldozers for years.
Israel refuse nearly all permits for housing. Homes, well ramshackle shelters really, are put up.
Israel bulldozers them down.
And on and on they go..

"multiple reports of mass murder and ethnic cleansing" - links please to Guardian article where it says this, as I can't find it

@PickledWilly was that an official IDF video? I’d be interested to see it if you have the link. I appreciate the misinformation on both sides but I don’t trust the IDF anymore than I would trust a Hamas tweet (if there was such a source). Some of the information coming from official Israeli sources is so obviously fake that it’s impossible to believe anything.

@mydiaryisfull
Sure. See Guardian article above. They mention ethnic cleansing in Gaza.

Sorry, it mentions ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, not Gaza.
But it seems it’s how the Guardian views Israel’s policy towards Palestinians.

Absolutely. The problem is, if you take retribution as your starting position and use it to justify breaking international war legislation in the name of revenge you make the world unsafe for everyone, not just your country.

It was initially put in place to protect civilians - if you ignore it you are setting a precedent that makes civilians around the world vulnerable.

The only reference I see to 'genocide' is the word used twice by a Atiya Aftab, a Muslim lawyer.

I see no "multiple reports of mass murder and ethnic cleansing"

@mydiaryisfull

The Guardian today reports ethnic cleansing.

For the reports of mass murder, see any news website, TV station or newspaper worldwide to see the reported numbers of murdered civilians, including thousands of children.

@mydiaryisfull

And in case you’re going to pathetically try to derail by saying it’s not murder, the UN has described the deaths as unlawful.
Unlawful killing is murder.
Perpetrated in enormous numbers it is mass murder.

@Coughingdodger "The Guardian today reports ethnic cleansing."

I haven't seen that article.

"For the reports of mass murder, see any news website, TV station or newspaper worldwide to see the reported numbers of murdered civilians, including thousands of children."

I've never heard any reporter use the word murder or mass murder and I've watched Sky, BBC, and Al Jezeera.

The UN is not a Criminal Court.

For the offence of murder to be proved, there must be both the act and the mental element of intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm.

Israel has done all it can to minimise danger to civilians.

As long as Hamas exists Israeli citizens are in danger.

I'm getting a bit sick of all these threads promoting Atrocity Inversion.

“Israel has done all it can to minimize danger to civilians.”

Like warning them to evacuate hospitals before they bomb them?

Or telling them to move south and then bombing them when they get there, assuming they don’t get bombed on route?

@chloechloe "Like warning them to evacuate hospitals before they bomb them?

IDF has not bombed a hospital.

The BBC had to apologise for mis-reporting this -

https://deadline.com/2023/10/bbc-wrong-to-speculate-on-gaza-hospital-blast-1235577943/

"assuming they don’t get bombed on route?"

The most the IDF can do at this stage is send warning to civilians to evacuate yet Hamas will not allow them. We have a situation where people can't flee and Hamas hides behind them,

I didn't know that. Well, there you go, another reason.

How depressing. Disposable people. All those souls with their lives just snuffed out like they're vermin or something.

“Israel has done all it can to minimise danger to civilians”

Do you actually believe this? Seriously?

Israel has been bombing Syria and installing oil drilling machinery for the past few years

Iraq
Syria
Palestine

Its not about wmd or religion or freedom. It's the oil.

This is nothing new. It was touched on in the 2004 Death in Gaza documentary as well. The filmmaker was killed by the IDF while leaving a family home in Gaza. I will never forget watching it.

'Atrocity inversion' depends on whether you are binary in your view. The acts of October 7th were an atrocity. The acts of October 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th and 29th were also an atrocity. There can be two truths. There's no need for value judgement on degrees of atrocity. Loss of civilian life and the taking of hostages is atrocity - no matter if it's a bunch of ideological driven terrorist organisation or a state.

Twitter has numerous links to what looks to be an official Israeli policy post Oct 7th.

Israel's Ministry of Intelligence deportation directive outlines the four stages:
1. A call on #Palestinian civilians to vacate north Gaza and allow for land operations;
2. Sequential land operations from north to south Gaza;
3. Leaving routes open across Rafah;
4. Establishing "tent cities" in northern Sinai and the construction of cities to resettle Palestinians in Egypt.

This keeps popping up in various forms and from decent sources. I think it's probably accurate.

This would constitute ethnic cleansing, but I don't believe fits the criteria to reach the level of genocide.

Its all about oil. Reports that oil discovered off coast of palestine. Something smells fishy

Israel has had it's own gas supplies for years -

https://www.reuters.com/article/israel-gas-exports-idUKL5N0EO1H120130612

nothing fishing about that.

Hamas isn’t going to be defeated through Israel killing innocent Palestinians. I saw a video of a boy whose entire family was killed. He was the sole survivor, the only person left to identify their bodies. He found his mum, stroked her cheek and kissed her goodbye. In ten/fifteen years, children like him will be Hamas, or worse. This isn’t the way to peace. It isn’t the way to eradicate Hamas. It isn’t going to create security for Israelis.